Mary's Bolognese

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Mary's Bolognese

Postby Pepper Pig » March 7th, 2017, 8:39 am

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03 ... -appalled/

I shouldn't comment as I haven't watched it yet but surely Bolognese is a hybrid anyway. When I learned to make it as a student we used to put all sorts of things in it - courgettes and sweet corn spring to mind. We would certainly not be fussed about the colour of the wine. Cream? Well why not'? Anna del Conte makes hers with milk.
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Re: Mary's Bolognese

Postby earthmaiden » March 7th, 2017, 8:50 am

I'm sure that back in the 60's and 70's, the standard good recipe (and there was one, presumably from one of the cookery writers of the day) contained milk - or is my memory failing me? If so, cream doesn't seem so funny. This looks quite like the way it was made back then actually - there was one other ingredient which made it special which escapes me at this moment - a herb or spice, not fennel seeds ... oh dear, I need another coffee to wake up my brain :)
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Re: Mary's Bolognese

Postby earthmaiden » March 7th, 2017, 8:55 am

Ah ... Elizabeth David .. nutmeg!

,,, and Mary Berry doesn't use chicken livers which were in the recipe we used.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... -bolognese
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Re: Mary's Bolognese

Postby suffolk » March 7th, 2017, 8:58 am

I've always followed Marcella Hazan's recipe and added milk after cooking off the wine (usually white but depending on what's available) - and yes, just a pinch of nutmeg.
Thought Mary's looked fine :D
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Re: Mary's Bolognese

Postby Suelle » March 7th, 2017, 9:00 am

I think a ragu sauce is probably one of those things where every family has their own recipe handed down through generations. Milk often features in so-called 'authentic' recipes, but that might be in the north where cows are reared and excess milk is more readily available. I think the meat used often varies too, sometimes including pork as Mary does; that would probably be regional too.

I guess a Bolognese sauce, rather than a generic ragu, might be more proscriptive in it's ingredients as it comes from a more defined area. I bet the locals argue over what is the 'right' recipe though.
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Re: Mary's Bolognese

Postby suffolk » March 7th, 2017, 10:01 am

Just as there is frequent discussion over whether Yorkshire batter has to 'stand' or not - I do what works for me :D
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Re: Mary's Bolognese

Postby Hope » March 7th, 2017, 10:31 am

From what I understand traditional bolognase does include milk. Also Mary used passatta, tinned tomatoes, herbs and garlic, which I understand are not traditional. Tomato puree is what's normally supposed to be used.

But then I suspect there are as many "traditional" bolognase sauces as there are families in Bologna! I know a lot of the traditional recipes that have been passed down in my family are quite different to the ones in traditional recipe books and even those from my grandmother's family are different to those which my grandfather's family cooks! Everyone has different likes and dislikes, uses different ingredients in different seasons, different budgets etc. I don't see why this always gets so contraversial!
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Re: Mary's Bolognese

Postby StokeySue » March 7th, 2017, 1:01 pm

Depends of course on whether you are making sugo (sauce, sugo di carne is meat sauce) ragu (meat sauce) or ragu Bolognese (meat sauce in the style of Bologna)

In the seventies I started with Elizabeth David's recipe which she says is mainly for lasagne verdi; chicken livers, red wine, no milk, quite a lot of "raw ham", tomato puree but no actual tomatoes

What I have made for most of my life is definitely spag bol, the closest Italian cousin would be a Neapolitan sugo di carne I suspect

The earliest published recipe is from Pellegrino Artusi and does contain milk but no tomato
The whole thing is clearly a minefield :D
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolognese_sauce

I've not been terribly impressed with Mary's non baking recipes, a little dull and dated IMHO, in the last series she served salmon fillets topped with cream cheese as a dinner party dish, apparently believing this was excitingly innovative although it has been in the Philadelphia ads for a very long time. This series she assured us we'd never have thought of salmon with leeks, though I think it's verging on a cliche (was it Keith Floyd originally? 90s anyway) I'm sure all the dishes work fine but not exciting

On the other hand, her lemon drizzle cupcakes :bounce: :bounce:
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Re: Mary's Bolognese

Postby Pepper Pig » March 7th, 2017, 1:36 pm

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Re: Mary's Bolognese

Postby Ratatouille » March 7th, 2017, 2:04 pm

There was a top Italian chef speaking about Mary's recipe on the World Service earlier.

He was outraged but even funnier was his suggestion that she must have learned how to make it in France :lol: :lol: Just the sort of mess a French chef would make.

I make my ragu the way I was taught in Italy with chicken livers and minced pork as well as beef. No milk and crtainly no cream and red wine.
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Re: Mary's Bolognese

Postby StokeySue » March 7th, 2017, 2:59 pm

TBH there's very little cream in that, 4 TBS, so the difference between that and milk not very marked.

There is to my mind nothing at all controversial about white wine , the famous Zia Nerina did it, her recipe is similar to Mrs David's
http://www.emikodavies.com/blog/zia-nerinas-ragu-alla-bolognese/

But I won't be making Mary's
Canned tomato plus puree plus passata? Far too much tomato
But most of all a whole kilogram of minced meat to 450 g pasta :o Does she know she's making a sauce not a cottage pie? :lol: :lol:
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Re: Mary's Bolognese

Postby Pepper Pig » March 7th, 2017, 3:40 pm

I always make gallons and then freeze in portions. When the kids were at home one batch would make 2 meals. These days I get between 4 and 6 depending on how mean I'm being and how much room there is in the freezer. :oops:
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Re: Mary's Bolognese

Postby StokeySue » March 7th, 2017, 3:56 pm

well yes but Mary appears to be serving the lot at once, probably something I should batch cook and freeze, I used to
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Re: Mary's Bolognese

Postby patpoyntz » March 7th, 2017, 7:43 pm

Yes I was surprised she seemed to serve it all, as I often think she is quite 'careful' with her portion sizes.
I agree with Sue, that there was far too much tomato in that recipe for me. However, I do use white wine and milk in my ragu, more or less the Marcella Hazan recipe.
I'm not a mad MB fan, but I enjoyed her first programme of this series, mainly as it was from one of our very favourite places, Ullapool, and not only showed the fab Seafood Shack, but also the lovely Tom Kitchen, whose food we eat whenever we can afford a treat. Tonight I got my OH to cook the baked salmon with yuzu, I thought it was an easy recipe for him.... he's just starting to cook since I had my knee op).... and I have to sat it was very tasty.
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Re: Mary's Bolognese

Postby Pepper Pig » March 8th, 2017, 11:11 am

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Re: Mary's Bolognese

Postby StokeySue » March 8th, 2017, 3:54 pm

Interesting Felicity decides on the milk
I agree with her that the amount of chicken liver in the David / Nerina version is too much, I was surprised it was four ounces, I remembered it as two, which is probably what I cut it down to when I made it more often
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Re: Mary's Bolognese

Postby StokeySue » July 21st, 2017, 8:00 pm

Well, I made Felicity's version today
Very nice, great texture, generous four portions BUT I would like a little garlic and a few herbs as Giorgio Locatelli adds to his; Felicity dismisses Giorgio on the curious grounds that he comes from Lombardy, which is surely outweighed by being a professional chef who can and does read heritage recipes even if the Italian is archaic?

Also not sure how she managed to spend thirty minutes reducing the milk, I added it and the mince soaked it up like a sponge, a little returned but no way could I have left it half an hour
Anyway, a nice supper has been eaten and there's another three to come :D
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Re: Mary's Bolognese

Postby northleedsbhoy » July 22nd, 2017, 5:23 am

I have never read a recipe for Bolognese and most probably never will. I make it how I like it and to me that's all that really matters and I do use a jar of sauce as a starter and then just add what I have and a lot of garlic.

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Re: Mary's Bolognese

Postby Prettykiwicrazy » July 22nd, 2017, 9:49 am

Bolognese is one of my favourite dishes and has been since I was little. Mine differs wildly each time depending what's to hand. I always use steak mince, as don't like the flavour of pork and beef together. Always onions,mushrooms and garlic in it. Usually a bay leaf and some oregano. Milk and or wine if I remember. I use tinned chopped tomatoes and simmer for a long time.
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Re: Mary's Bolognese

Postby MagicMarmite » July 22nd, 2017, 2:25 pm

Mine differs too but these days is always made with slow cooked brisket, no mince at all!
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Re: Mary's Bolognese

Postby StokeySue » July 22nd, 2017, 2:31 pm

Which brings us back to the actual point of this thread, i.e. that not not all good meat based pasta sauces are Bolognese. Not better or worse but different. And some are spag bol, which is also fine :D
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Re: Mary's Bolognese

Postby MagicMarmite » July 22nd, 2017, 2:46 pm

Agreed :D
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Re: Mary's Bolognese

Postby StokeySue » July 22nd, 2017, 3:41 pm

:hi5:
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Re: Mary's Bolognese

Postby KC2 » July 26th, 2017, 10:38 am

On last night's pasta factory programme, Cherry and one of the Lina store's (in Soho) staff both made "bolognese" - I can't remember her name but the Italian was very picky and insisted that it be served with tagliatelle, not spaghetti, and dismissed Cherry's anglicised version!
To be fair, she was talking about matching pasta shapes with the right sauce and tagliatelle held it better. (They matched spaghetti with pesto or carbonara, I think. We like linguine with pesto.)
Then, a bit later in the programme, they served spag bol from the Spaghetti House restaurants and it looked exactly like Cherry's! We used to have a foody Italian lodger and he always used a whole bottle of Barolo (gulp!) in his, minced steak and double cream. He also cooked it for hours. I can't remember where he came from in Italy.

I see a new thread coming on - or there may be one already! - on favourite pasta shapes and sauces .... ;)
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Re: Mary's Bolognese

Postby PatsyMFagan » July 26th, 2017, 11:09 am

I saw the programme and thought the same thing KC2 ... most confusing when the Spaghetti House purported to be the first 'Italian' Restaurant chain in England :? On reflection though I suspect Spaghetti House was catering to the British taste, much like the Indians developing 'Balti' and chicken Tikka Masala for us too ?
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Re: Mary's Bolognese

Postby StokeySue » July 26th, 2017, 11:46 am

I've heard before that ragu bolognese shoukd be served with tagliatelle not spaghetti, but until the mid seventies the pasta shapes widely available were spaghetti in blue packets, elbow macaroni (often Quick Quaker :o ) and lasagne if you were lucky, hence spag bol.
I think the Spaghetti House caters very much to British tastes, most of the staff seem to be Albanian or Cypriot these days! Very fond of the Spaghetti House, part of becoming adult to me
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Re: Mary's Bolognese

Postby KC2 » July 26th, 2017, 4:27 pm

StokeySue wrote:but until the mid seventies the pasta shapes widely available were spaghetti in blue packets, elbow macaroni (often Quick Quaker :o ) and lasagne if you were lucky, hence spag bol.

Good point, Sue, I remember the thrill when I was still quite little (late 50s/early 60s) of the spaghetti that indeed came in those very long blue paper packets! We rarely had butter as it was too expensive but I think I had it with tomato ketchup and it was a real treat! I remember sucking it up from my plate and making a mess with the ketchup!!
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Re: Mary's Bolognese

Postby Zosherooney » July 26th, 2017, 4:49 pm

We finished up the end of a packet of this shaped pasta last night.......http://www.nsfwallet.com/willy-shaped-pasta-rude-food/ :oops: :oops:

I have to say the tomato and pear sauce that went with the meatballs was sublime.. :chops: :chops: :chef:
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Re: Mary's Bolognese

Postby earthmaiden » July 26th, 2017, 7:24 pm

StokeySue wrote:I've heard before that ragu bolognese shoukd be served with tagliatelle not spaghetti

Definitely learned that too, but how wonderful it felt to open the lovely blue packs of spaghetti and to serve it with a delicious 'bolognese' sauce a la Elizabeth David, green salad and real coffee to follow ... I wouldn't turn my nose up at that now!
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Re: Mary's Bolognese

Postby Seatallan » July 27th, 2017, 10:49 am

StokeySue wrote:I've heard before that ragu bolognese shoukd be served with tagliatelle not spaghetti,


I like it with the fat, tubular spaghetti. Can't remember what it's called. Sort of like a cross between spaghetti and the very thin macaroni-type pasta you use in soup. Can't remember what that's called either! :) :oops:
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Re: Mary's Bolognese

Postby Riocaz » July 27th, 2017, 12:57 pm

Seatallan Bucatini?

I have developed a liking for Fusili lunghi personally. Dad likes spaghetti, and Mum likes any short pasta shape.
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Re: Mary's Bolognese

Postby Zosherooney » July 27th, 2017, 3:00 pm

Rio, How do you cook 3 different sorts of pasta in the same pan ???? ;) ;) :lol: :lol:
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Re: Mary's Bolognese

Postby Seatallan » July 27th, 2017, 4:21 pm

Riocaz wrote:Seatallan Bucatini?


Yes! That's the one! Thanks Lee. :wave: :tu:
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Re: Mary's Bolognese

Postby KC2 » July 27th, 2017, 5:52 pm

One of our current favourites is casarecce.

Riocaz wrote:
I have developed a liking for Fusili lunghi personally.

Yes, they're great, I'm trying to remember what sauce we had on them last time, what's your favourite?

Some of these look yummy: http://bit.ly/2vNcjos :chops:
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Re: Mary's Bolognese

Postby FoodMary » August 13th, 2017, 2:48 pm

When I was at college we were taught the half and half pork and beef plus chopped bacon recipe for spag bol - that was in the 50/60's when it was becoming popular, especially as a party dish. Red wine, tomato puree, chopped onions, sliced mushrooms, stock and seasoning plus a bay leaf and herbs were all in the recipe.

I know it off by heart and I still use it today!

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