a few old recipes

Out of the main bustle of the Coffee shop this is where people gather to share recipes and tips/tricks.

Re: a few old recipes

Postby Seatallan » July 4th, 2019, 8:05 am

You obviously have an interest in archaic recipes Wargarden and some of your posts are very interesting and informative but it would be lovely if you'd share a bit more information about yourself, as has been said. I think it would really help if we could get to know you a bit better.
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby suffolk » July 4th, 2019, 8:30 am

Seatallan wrote:You obviously have an interest in archaic recipes Wargarden and some of your posts are very interesting and informative but it would be lovely if you'd share a bit more information about yourself, as has been said. I think it would really help if we could get to know you a bit better.


I agree ... It would help us to respond to your posts as we would understand more about the direction in which you’re heading.

For instance, if we knew more about what you actually want to achieve by posting the recipes on here ... we’re a bit in the dark about how to respond ... some members of this board are very knowledgeable about the history of British cooking and others of us have a lot of knowledge of traditional farmhouse and rural style baking, meal-making and other domestic skills, others have scientific, engineering, literary and medical backgrounds amongst other things while others have experience in broadcasting, performance, the plastic arts .... there is a wealth of knowledge here ...

Don’t get us wrong ... we’re not after your mother’s maiden name, the name of your first pet or your bank account :lol: just to know what it is we can help you with ...
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby PatsyMFagan » July 4th, 2019, 11:11 am

scullion wrote:what is your interest in all these recipes? is it to do with your job? are you a student or researching for some reason? we assume you're in america but what is your native tongue? it would be nice to know a little about you other than your interest in old newspaper/magazine recipes. as you may have noticed, we tend to chat, rather, on this forum. if you are expecting to just glean recipes from us, or ' do we still eat ... in the uk' you may be disappointed.


Bet you don't get an answer :rolleyes: wg hasn't yet answered any question posed back :rolleyes:
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby Ratatouille » July 4th, 2019, 1:01 pm

I think the fact that the recipe was in a Liverpool publication says it all. Liverpool is not in Yorkshire. You would take your life in your hands telling a Yorkshire housewife how to make Yorkshire puddings.

As someone from the North East of English who spent most of her childhood in Yorkshire I am no stranger to the aeting and making of said puddings. In the days when my grandparents were young the weekly Yorkie was indeed cooked in the meat tim having scraped out the crusty bits for the gravy but saving the dripping. It was then reheated - essential and the batter pouredd in. When ready it was cut into squares and served with some of the gravy before the meat and veg.The purpose being to fill up the family so they didn't eat all the meat and there was some left for Monday's dinner . ie lunch with panackerty as it was washing day.

By the time I was a child YP's had become a little smaller - made in tins such as Sue showed. Dad always grumbled because he didn't think this was right. I do sometimes make them in deep muffin tins if I want to do individual toad in the hole.

One essental for successful YPs is the fat must be very hot and completely without moisture. Butter there. unless it is clatified would just not work.
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby scullion » July 4th, 2019, 2:31 pm

Ratatouille wrote:One essental for successful YPs is the fat must be very hot


well, there you go on the different opinion front! i'm pretty sure i heard prof. peter barham say that the fat/oil, can/should be cold for the perfect yorkshire pudding - that episode of 'the kitchen cabinet' is possibly still on the beeb to listen to.

my mother was an east end evacuee and it was always called batter pudding not yorkshire. i still consider it a waste of calories - for a cheap filler give me more potatoes any day.

PatsyMFagan wrote:Bet you don't get an answer

i know, but it would be interesting to have some sort of engagement. i was beginning to wonder if it was someone's experiment with the turing test!
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby earthmaiden » July 4th, 2019, 3:06 pm

Now you mention it, we always called it batter pudding too.

It's interesting how many dishes you can get from one mixture perhaps with a couple of small additions isn't it! Batter/Yorkshire pudding & popovers served numerous sweet and savoury ways, toad in the hole, pancakes, there was mention of boiled dumplings somewhere, clafoutis .... are there more?

My go to book fo everyday US cookery is Betty Crocker (who I know wasn't a real person). Serving suggestions for popovers (which have an identical recipe and I promise are identical in appearance to large individual Yorkshire puds like the sort you get on a Toby carvery) include cutting in half and filling each half with Beef Burgundy (aka beef & red wine casserole) and similar with crab or lobster newburg. The latter ones look delicious.

Clearly all these dishes are inventive ideas from the same root where time, distance and language have created some small differences. It doesn't seem worth over-discussion.

Unlike scully, I love all the variations!
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby scullion » July 4th, 2019, 3:25 pm

if ever we meet for a meal you get first dibs on my share!
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby earthmaiden » July 4th, 2019, 3:57 pm

:hungry:
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby Busybee » July 4th, 2019, 4:34 pm

As a Yorkshire born lass I totally agree with Rats, both in method, although I would add the necessity to rest the batter before cooking, and the history of why it is eaten as a starter, never part of a roast meal. It’s all about being economical.......which is why you wouldn’t use a lot of eggs, far to dear!

I have to say it’s something that I seldom cook, but thoroughly enjoy eating when done well.

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Re: a few old recipes

Postby scullion » July 4th, 2019, 4:55 pm

according to mrs beeton -

"Yorkshire" pudding is always cooked in front of the fire; when baked in the oven, the term "batter pudding" is applied to it by the people in the county whence it derives its name.

there you go earthmaden - we're right!
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby scullion » July 4th, 2019, 5:21 pm

according to mrs beeton -

"Yorkshire" pudding is always cooked in front of the fire; when baked in the oven, the term "batter pudding" is applied to it by the people in the county whence it derives its name.

there you go earthmaden - we're right!

maybe that's where wg gets the idea of 'drippings' from - if the pudding is under the meat as it roasts on a spit
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby earthmaiden » July 4th, 2019, 6:16 pm

:)

I have been looking through various books to no avail to try to find out when batter puddings in any form were first mentioned. I thought this was quite interesting though:
https://www.historic-uk.com/CultureUK/Y ... e-Pudding/ ..... the main interesting bits being, "The prefix “Yorkshire” was first used within a publication by Hannah Glasse in 1747, in “The Art of Cookery Made Plain and Simple”. This distinguished the light and crispy nature of the batter puddings made in this region from batter puddings created in other parts of England. .......... The pudding would have originally been cooked beneath the meat ..... (The initial name for cooking a batter in this way was “Dripping Pudding”.)

Also, in the comments beneath, someone from the USA has asked, "Is there any connection between Yorkshire Pudding and Puchins? Pushins is like a flat dough cooked in the beef gravy. Haven't had it in years and having trouble finding the recipe".

Thinking of clever use of heat from a fire as I saw at the Iron Age class recently, I wonder just how back this does go, It seems that the tradition of putting a dough or batter under meat goes back in time forever. I have a feeling you'd need an enclosed oven before getting a batter pudding really crisp but clearly not if Mrs Beeton is right.

Wargarden, have you heard of Puchins / pushins? I can't find reference to it anywhere else.
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby Amber » July 4th, 2019, 7:30 pm

Like everyone else, I’ve been brought up to use hot fat in a hot oven.
Except...one time...when I had spare YP mixture left over. I poured it into a cold tin, with cold fat, and it was one of my best YPs ever!
We don’t often have roasts, and therefore don’t often have YPs, but I do like them, also served as a hot dessert with syrup ;) :oops: :D .
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby Ratatouille » July 5th, 2019, 8:28 am

em you said "
It's interesting how many dishes you can get from one mixture perhaps with a couple of small additions isn't it! Batter/Yorkshire pudding & popovers served numerous sweet and savoury ways, toad in the hole, pancakes, there was mention of boiled dumplings somewhere, clafoutis .... are there more? "
There's the famaous Breton dish called Far which is a baked batter mixture with prunes. It can be a dessert but is also served for breakfast and very good it is too.

Amber, in our house, when I was a child, YPs were compulsory every Sunday with whatever roast which was also compulsory. rotating around beef. mutton and pork. The only visible differences were beef came with mustard, mutton with redcurrant jelly and pork with apple sauce :lol: :lol:
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby suffolk » July 5th, 2019, 8:54 am

I have inherited Ma's Yorkshire Pudding trivet ... one of my most treasured possessions ... I've never seen another ...

Yorkshire pud trivet.jpg


This is used to hold a joint of beef above the roasting pan for the later part of the cooking period so that the Yorkshire Pudding batter can cook gently in the roasting tin below the beef (in the fat that has rendered from the outside of the beef) and the meat juices drip down into the pudding as it cooks ... then its edges are crisped up when the meat is taken out to rest and the fire in the stove cranked up for a short while to roast the potatoes ... it really is the most divine dish :chops:

Batter puddings are cooked and served with other joints of meat ... you can't have uncooked meat juices from pork or poultry dripping into the batter pudding as it mght not cook through :sprout: and the juices from mutton and lamb would be too fatty ... this is why they are cooked in a separate pan or pans at a higher heat while the meat is resting.

We also have to remember that before the days of gas and then electric ovens, getting a solid fuel oven up to the consistent high heat needed for light and fluffy puddings was difficult and expensive. Reliable fluffy batter puddings and crispy roasted potatoes were a sign of real affluence as well as skill.

I have no idea where Ma got her trivet from ... it's unlikely to have been from her side of the family (too posh to cook their own meals) ... possibly it came from Pa's side of the family ... Cambridgeshire/Beds farmers and bakers .... but my best bet is that it was a wedding present from a couple from Yorkshire whose farm she worked on when she was in the Land Army. She occasionally said that they couldn't read or write but the farmer's wife was a marvellous cook.

(sorry the pic's on it's side)
Last edited by suffolk on July 5th, 2019, 9:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby Suelle » July 5th, 2019, 9:00 am

My mother had a trivet too, although I've no idea what happened to it. She was from Yorkshire, but left to join the Land Army in Cambridgeshire before she would have accumulated cooking possessions of her own, so perhaps it is something local to Cambridgeshire. Or she knew what she needed, and persuaded the local blacksmith to make one!
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby suffolk » July 5th, 2019, 9:05 am

I made sure I nabbed this one before SIL got it :x :tu:

Perhaps mine came from Pa's side of the family then Suelle ... :D
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby earthmaiden » July 5th, 2019, 9:18 am

Interesting to see/hear about all the inherited trivets! No links to Yorkshire in my family and no trivets that I remember, we didn't have roasts much though.

You have clarified the difference between Yorkshire and Batter puddings Rats - that makes total sense. I am still pondering over making them under meat roasting on a spit in front of a fire. They would have to be very close to the fire and be turned regularly, perhaps buried in some hot coals but still hard to get risen and crisp.

Thinking of popovers, I wonder if there is an Irish tradition of such things which was taken to the USA. Only soda bread and potatoes spring to mind.
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby suffolk » July 5th, 2019, 9:23 am

:idea: or perhaps my Ma and Suelle’s were on the same farm and bonded over how to cook roast beef ... I must say that although Ma wasn’t known for her culinary skill (rather the opposite in fact) she could do a dashed fine roast rib of beef and Yorkshire pud :chops:

I might have to get some beef for the weekend ... now look what you’ve done :rolleyes:
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby Seatallan » July 5th, 2019, 9:40 am

Dad and I both loved Yorkshire Pudding with golden syrup poured over it (as a pud). I could eat a plateful now.... :chops:
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby wargarden » July 5th, 2019, 2:27 pm

Busybee letting the batter rest for popover, mini Yorkshire pudding and yorshire pudding limits the rise of batter.
since with no leavening from yeast or chemical agent (such baking soda or baking powder) in recipe the only rise
you get is from air bubbles when mix the batter. letting the batter rest you lose most of you rise.
to get the best rise very swift mixing with wisk or 30-45 on high in a blender you get best rise.

Seatallan my motivation is simple. it is post old and abs cure recipes when find them so those who may not be aware of them
might give them a go. the only old recipe i will not post are old canning, tinning and bottling recipes because older method do meet modern
hygiene and safe cooking standard. Though like black berry pickle recipe i found recently might with modern hygiene and safe cooking methods
might be delicious .
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby earthmaiden » July 5th, 2019, 2:51 pm

Perhaps it's the atmosphere but here in the UK our puddings rise beautifully after being left to stand. I agree that in other kinds of cookery you do not want to lose the air.

You are a courageous person telling BB how to make Yorkshire pudding :lol: .
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby Seatallan » July 5th, 2019, 3:27 pm

wargarden wrote:Seatallan my motivation is simple. it is post old and abs cure recipes when find them so those who may not be aware of them
might give them a go.


And as I say, some of your posts are fascinating Wargarden. I just think it would help us if we knew a wee bit more about you- where are you based for example? What got you interested in archaic recipes? Do you cook any of them for your family or friends?
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby suffolk » July 5th, 2019, 3:43 pm

Have you ever made Yorkshire Puddings Wargarden? I make them almost every week and have made thousands in over fifty years as a home and professional cook. Your understanding of the science behind a light and fluffy risen Yorkshire pudding is mistaken.

You may find it helpful to read this https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... e-puddings ... you will see that there are variations in proportions of ingredients and whether or not to ‘rest’.

As with many traditional dishes there is no hard and fast ‘recipe’ for Yorkshire pudding; the secret to successful Yorkshire pudding rests mainly with the expertise of the cook and her knowledge of the vagaries of the oven she is using which will have lead her to her preferred method which she will have adapted from the one taught to her by her mother and grandmother in her early teens if not before.

Although the Yorkshire Pudding is a traditional dish many years old, there is absolutely no danger of it becoming obscure ... they are still cooked in millions of UK home kitchens and the majority of pub and hotel restaurants on Sundays :chef:

A great authority on traditional English cooking was Dorothy Hartley who published her seminal Food in England in 1954 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Hartley. Most folk on this board will be familiar with herself recipe for Yorkshire pudding, but if you would like me to copy it out for you I would be only to happy to do so.

Given your interest in traditional recipes you may find it helpful to buy your own copy.

There is an old English saying which you may not be familiar with https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teachin ... _suck_eggs
Last edited by suffolk on July 5th, 2019, 3:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby wargarden » July 5th, 2019, 4:37 pm

suffolk evidently you missed the picture i posted of a Yorkshire pudding.
I have made Yorkshire pudding many times. I also did side by side comparison
of batter that has been allowed sit and batter right out blender .
the batter right out blender was made clearly better in taste.

the best ratio for ingredient for a great Yorkshire , equal volume eggs,sifted all purpose, milk
18 ml of drippings for batter,18 ml of drippings for the pan and bit salt.
Last edited by wargarden on July 5th, 2019, 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby scullion » July 5th, 2019, 4:39 pm

wargarden wrote: letting the batter rest for popover, mini Yorkshire pudding and yorshire pudding limits the rise of batter.
since with no leavening from yeast or chemical agent (such baking soda or baking powder) in recipe the only rise
you get is from air bubbles when mix the batter
. letting the batter rest you lose most of you rise.


are you forgetting that the eggs in the batter are the raising agent?

tempura batter may be used straight away, in a barely mixed state, but most other batters aren't - pancake batters have to be left for hours before being fried.
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby scullion » July 5th, 2019, 4:45 pm

wargarden wrote:suffolk evidently you missed the picture i posted of a Yorkshire pudding

wargarden, evidently you've missed the questions i, and others, have asked you.
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby northleedsbhoy » July 5th, 2019, 4:48 pm

wargarden, will you ever explain about where you're from and the reason behind your posts? You have to appreciate that this is a predominantly British board and whilst we may be interested in somethings you post it's getting a bit boring by just posting then without any explanation about why!

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Re: a few old recipes

Postby wargarden » July 5th, 2019, 4:51 pm

scullion if think I missed questions it might helpful if you and others highlighted the questions in quotation in you posts;
since they seem to get lost in your posts.
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby wargarden » July 5th, 2019, 4:54 pm

eggs are leavening agent,true but bubbles are key to great rise in most bake goods no matter source.
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby scullion » July 5th, 2019, 4:54 pm

scullion wrote:what is your interest in all these recipes? is it to do with your job? are you a student or researching for some reason? we assume you're in america but what is your native tongue? it would be nice to know a little about you other than your interest in old newspaper/magazine recipes.
as you may have noticed, we tend to chat, rather, on this forum. if you are expecting to just glean recipes from us, or ' do we still eat ... in the uk' you may be disappointed.


maybe you didn't read the post.
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby Busybee » July 5th, 2019, 4:57 pm

earthmaiden wrote:
You are a courageous person telling BB how to make Yorkshire pudding :lol: .


I decided not to ‘rise’ to the bait, pun totally intended ;)

Me, my mother, grandmothers and generations of Yorkshire women must all be wrong.......

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Re: a few old recipes

Postby suffolk » July 5th, 2019, 5:08 pm

wargarden wrote:suffolk evidently you missed the picture i posted of a Yorkshire pudding.
I have made Yorkshire pudding many times. I also did side by side comparison
of batter that has been allowed sit and batter right out blender .
the batter right out blender was made clearly better in taste.

the best ratio for ingredient for a great Yorkshire , equal volume eggs,sifted all purpose, milk
18 ml of drippings for batter,18 ml of drippings for the pan and bit salt.


wargarden wrote:Individual pudding are not yorkshire pudding.
so call individual puddings are popovers made with dripping and
not butter and usually in UK ; baked in a muffin pan and not a poppover pan.

here is picture of popovers not mini/ individual yorkshire puddings.
The attachment popovers.JPG is no longer available


I did not miss your photograph but those are not individual Yorkshire puddings.

These are individual Yorkshire puddings


Yorkshirepuddingbakingsheet-GettyImages-649144383-5930de7b5f9b589eb4d1983f.jpg


And you make your batter in a blender ... quelle horreur!!! This is what you should be using https://www.jdwilliams.co.uk/shop/kitch ... ,size:35CM

Can I ask why you think you know better how to cook a traditional English recipe than a forum full of English cooks who have been cooking Yorkshire puddings all our lives?
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby northleedsbhoy » July 5th, 2019, 5:43 pm

Suffs, wouldn’t hold any hope about an answer to your question :rolleyes:. Methinks s/he is just posting random recipes to provoke a reply and then argue against it. As I said it’s now getting boring and best thing to do would just ‘blank’ them unless there’s an explanation why it’s being asked :rolleyes:

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Re: a few old recipes

Postby suffolk » July 5th, 2019, 5:50 pm

A previously banned member from some time back posted in a similar style ... sometimes about the same subjects ... gives me a sense of deja vu :rolleyes:
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby Prettykiwicrazy » July 5th, 2019, 5:53 pm

Wargarden, I think you’d get on great with a certain poster on Sakkarins forum :D . Trolling springs to mind
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby earthmaiden » July 5th, 2019, 6:08 pm

I think some of the subjects raised have been quite interesting. Surely we can all discuss them (or not) as we wish without taking bait.

I feel that this thread is about to close but just to put the cat amongst the pigeons - my MIL used to make her batter pudding to go with beef with SR flour. :twisted:
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby northleedsbhoy » July 5th, 2019, 6:14 pm

suffolk wrote:A previously banned member from some time back posted in a similar style ... sometimes about the same subjects ... gives me a sense of deja vu :rolleyes:


I've been thinking the same. Methinks it's just 'trolling' to provoke argument :rolleyes:. May be wrong but unless there's an actual question, or information who the person is and why such random posts are being made, it's probably best to ignore future ones.

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Re: a few old recipes

Postby scullion » July 5th, 2019, 6:16 pm

my mother's used to turn out with the rise and consistency of closed cell rubber, however she made it - but then we all know about my mothers cooking.

don't worry em, we think there's quite a bit of wum history going on here.
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby suffolk » July 5th, 2019, 6:24 pm

northleedsbhoy wrote:
suffolk wrote:A previously banned member from some time back posted in a similar style ... sometimes about the same subjects ... gives me a sense of deja vu :rolleyes:


I've been thinking the same. Methinks it's just 'trolling' to provoke argument :rolleyes:. May be wrong but unless there's an actual question, or information who the person is and why such random posts are being made, it's probably best to ignore future ones


Yup :| :rolleyes:
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby Ratatouille » July 5th, 2019, 6:31 pm

I just don't get the whole wargarten thing. Just what is going on please??
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby suffolk » July 5th, 2019, 6:44 pm

earthmaiden wrote: ...... my MIL used to make her batter pudding to go with beef with SR flour. :twisted:


So did mine :shock: :twisted: I think we’ve already decided that your ex and mine were probably clones ... :o :lol:
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby wargarden » July 5th, 2019, 6:54 pm

Ratatouille
1.my handle is war garden not wargarten,

2.as for the rest of their statements i make no further comment
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby Gruney » July 5th, 2019, 7:54 pm

wargarden wrote:2.as for the rest of their statements i make no further comment


Well if you're after helpful responses, maybe you should. Can't you see which way the wind is blowing?
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby northleedsbhoy » July 5th, 2019, 7:55 pm

wargarden wrote:Ratatouille
1.my handle is war garden not wargarten,

2.as for the rest of their statements i make no further comment


My last post on this. I would've thought that instead of just quoting back to Ratatouille there would be an answer to the concerns that folks have made about the reasons etc for the post and a bit of information why they're being asked and by whom.

Cheers
NLB :tu:
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby karadekoolaid » July 7th, 2019, 1:29 am

Somewhere, I read that the original YP was food for the servants.
A tray was placed underneath the (roasting) side of beef and a mixture of eggs and flour was poured in, once there was enough hot fat in the tray.
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby suffolk » July 7th, 2019, 11:40 am

Oh dear ... he’s over on Sakkarins board now ... more Chicken Maryland anyone? :rolleyes:
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby earthmaiden » July 7th, 2019, 11:43 am

:hug: :hug:
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby wargarden » July 7th, 2019, 12:01 pm

well yesterday was fried chicken day
Last edited by wargarden on July 7th, 2019, 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: a few old recipes

Postby scullion » July 7th, 2019, 4:30 pm

no, plainleaf3, yesterday was saturday.
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