Ingredients that confuse.

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Ingredients that confuse.

Postby Gruney » November 22nd, 2019, 2:08 pm

I'll soon be doing something from a Scottish recipe book I picked up on one of my jaunts - it suggests, as an accompaniment - "Clapshot" - essentially mashed potato and "turnip". Here we go now, on something I always have to think more than twice about.
Where I was brought up, in the NW, a turnip was what we called a swede. Everybody was the same, we didn't know the smaller purple/white things existed. It's not a massive problem any more but I just wondered,in an idle moment, whether it was a regional thing - and whether there are any other misleading names about.
Oh - the recipe does explain that a turnip is really a swede, but doesn't digress to neeps.
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby StokeySue » November 22nd, 2019, 2:39 pm

I was going to say, I’ve had clapshot cooked by Scots and it has always been the orange stuff - swede, Swedish turnip (which according to Clarissa Dickson-Wright is how it got the name) or rutabaga (which is how it is described on the Branson pickle label)

One that caused great confusion and some hilarity on the old BBC board was orzo. This is simply the Italian word for barley, but in English (and Greek) it is the name for a pasta shape, little grain shaped pieces of dried pasta. Also known as risoni (rice shaped pasta). Important to know if you are meant to be cooking pasta for 6 minutes or pearl barley for 46 minutes, especially as both can be cooked in a risotto style!
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby scullion » November 22nd, 2019, 2:44 pm

where i was brought up, in the home counties, a swede was the orange one and turnips were the white with purple necks.
down here, turnip is the orange one - and goes into pastys. the others are called white turnip - i think - they are less common down here.
i always have to guess at it when a recipe calls for turnip, too.
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby Ratatouille » November 22nd, 2019, 3:28 pm

In the NE swede was always known as turnip and the others with the purple tops and lovely green leaves were posh white turnips and eaten when young and straight out of the allotment ie in the summer as a special Sunday treat, stalks and all and usually with butter and parsely. I onlyever came across them like this at Gran's or our house .

Swede was a winter veg and served mashed with butter and pepper especially with pork. Any left over were mixed with mash and fried next day. We also to make turnip lanternsat Hallowe'en well before the arrival of pumpkins - they smelled revolting!

I can sometimes get rutabaga here but they are expensive and have never had frost. I still buy one sometimes because I love them so much. They are to be found in the exotic section- like rhubarb.
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby suffolk » November 22nd, 2019, 3:46 pm

To return to Clapshot .... one of my favourite vegetable accompaniments to a hearty winter dish, we had some the other day with an oxtail stew ... it is made with Swede, a floury mashing-type potato, and lots of butter and black pepper :chops:
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby Seatallan » November 22nd, 2019, 4:17 pm

Just adore Clapshot. And Colcannon. :chops:
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby Seatallan » November 22nd, 2019, 4:18 pm

Come to that, just adore swede and turnip. Love swede mashed with yoghurt and crispy bacon/lardons or pancetta and love turnip chunked up in winter stews. :hungry:

Always makes me think of Ian of France. He just detested swede and turnip. I'm sure he still does... :D
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby earthmaiden » November 22nd, 2019, 4:36 pm

I think there are a few regional variations but apart from the roll/barm/bap/teacake thing which is really confusing I can't think of any. My son tells an amusing story of when he moved to Nottingham and asked for a filled roll and the person serving insisted he wanted a tea cake which he only knew as a kind of fruit bun. You'd think that in the 21st century one of them might have read between the lines - but no!

Once you get to differences with US English there are more, rutubaga has been mentioned, cilantro, arugula etc.

Love turnip (white) grated raw in salad. Swede mashed with butter and pepper.
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby StokeySue » November 22nd, 2019, 5:56 pm

White turnip (naves) have a slightly bitter unpleasant taste to me when cooked, not helped by association with the disgusting (canned?) diced mixed veg of school dinners which is where I first encountered turnip
Funnily enough I love cime di rape turnip greens, had them with Orecchiette and chilli on Tuesday in an Italian restaurant

Do we have a swede/turnip discussion every winter? Any other confusing foods?
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby wargarden » November 22nd, 2019, 6:42 pm

why not just call swede: rutabaga be done with it.
swede.is waxy on top. turnip not so much.
what do you call white turnips.
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby Gruney » November 22nd, 2019, 6:45 pm

StokeySue wrote:Do we have a swede/turnip discussion every winter? Any other confusing foods?


Oh - sorry if so. my post was wholly innocent - or ignorant. :D I was hoping to start a thread on similar confusions. :tu:
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby scullion » November 23rd, 2019, 1:57 am

wargarden wrote:why not just call swede: rutabaga be done with it.

because we are not swedish - and have the word swede for what the swedish (and americans for some reason) call rutabagga - why add in another language for a word we already have?
wargarden wrote:what do you call white turnips.

white turnips.
if you wanted uniformity of language we'd use the latin name for each.

why not call aluminium, aluminium or trousers, trousers rather than another word for draws/knickers?
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby wargarden » November 23rd, 2019, 4:45 am

scullion in usa we would not call them trousers , or draws/knickers.
we would call them pants.
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby suffolk » November 23rd, 2019, 8:00 am

wargarden wrote:scullion in usa we would not call them trousers , or draws/knickers.
we would call them pants.


:lol: That is exactly the point Scullion is making ... in English ‘pants’ is a word synonymous with ‘knickers’ and ‘drawers’, and solely used for under-garments ... when using American English it seems to us that you walk down the street in nothing but your underwear :o :lol:
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby Gruney » November 23rd, 2019, 8:28 am

Well someone's got to say it - winter draws on.
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby earthmaiden » November 23rd, 2019, 8:35 am

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby Badger's mate » November 23rd, 2019, 9:36 am

I used to find American ingredients and measures very confusing. When I was little, Mum bought a second-hand cookbook from somewhere, maybe a jumble sale. It was an Italian recipe book by a woman called Ada Boni (this amused my Dad no end, he'd pronounce it 'add a boney' and wave his arms about). Anyway, it contained references to exotic stuff like abalone and eggplant, it was aimed at the US market.

Nowadays I suppose we get so much US influence in our media that we've come to recognise what's meant, and indeed many children now use American rather than British terms. We're losing 'Goose pimples' and one of our nieces refers to small red and black beetles as ladybugs. 'Do you have?' seems to have replaced 'Have you got?'. Oddly, no matter how loudly I shout at the telly, or indeed the wireless :rolleyes: it doesn't alter things.
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby Herbidacious » November 23rd, 2019, 9:39 am

suffolk wrote:
wargarden wrote:scullion in usa we would not call them trousers , or draws/knickers.
we would call them pants.


:lol: That is exactly the point Scullion is making ... in English ‘pants’ is a word synonymous with ‘knickers’ and ‘drawers’, and solely used for under-garments ... when using American English it seems to us that you walk down the street in nothing but your underwear :o :lol:


And things being rubbish :)
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby Herbidacious » November 23rd, 2019, 9:47 am

I am afraid it really bugs me when people answer 'Yes I do,'! to "Have you got?" 'Do you have' sounds more elegant than 'have you got' to me, actually.

Yes I remember getting an American cookbook in the 90s and being briefly confused by bell peppers. I think we have had the 'cookies' conversation before. My young colleagues use it, but not to refer to all biscuits, but rather larger softish ones. I suspect that the shops sell them under this name? But
Chocolate Digestives are still biscuits.
Needless to say we have to do a separate American version for the cook books we publish.

Back to pants, my mother used to call her trousers 'slacks' in the 70s... That's American isn't it?
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby Badger's mate » November 23rd, 2019, 10:51 am

It reminds me of the old joke about an English woman in the US being asked 'Do you have children?', to which the answer was 'Sometimes'.
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby StokeySue » November 23rd, 2019, 10:57 am

I think with US ingredients sharing TV shows demystifies the ingredients quite a lot.

Though I am always slightly confused that a US cook will use 2 slices of bread to make a toasted sandwich and refer to it as a “panini” although in Italian a panini is a small bread, in other words a bread roll, and if I ordered a toasted panini anywhere in Europe, and got anything made with bread slices I’d be surprised.
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby Seatallan » November 23rd, 2019, 11:00 am

StokeySue wrote:Do we have a swede/turnip discussion every winter?


Yep! Just like we always do fireworks, Halloween v Guy Fawkes night, sprouts, Christmas left-overs, etc. Wouldn't be the same if we didn't... :D
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby Badger's mate » November 23rd, 2019, 11:01 am

I think that confusing ingredients are particularly evident in menus these days, It seems to be part of the fashion for poncey menus, even in modest establishments. Presumably that's what people are taught in catering school. At least with the internet and mobiles it's possible to look things up. Even then though, it's often a list of ingredients without any idea how it's cooked or how much of each ingredient is present. This would be less of an issue if the quantities didn't vary so much. Very often I find some things come with a bed of potato or rice and are plausible main courses, others with a smear of something and need a side dish or two.
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby StokeySue » November 23rd, 2019, 11:19 am

Yes, and you order the list of ingredients because you really like one of them and find that you get barely a teaspoonful s
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby Rocky » November 23rd, 2019, 12:22 pm

Herbidacious wrote:I am afraid it really bugs me when people answer 'Yes I do,'! to "Have you got?" 'Do you have' sounds more elegant than 'have you got' to me, actually.

Yes I remember getting an American cookbook in the 90s and being briefly confused by bell peppers. I think we have had the 'cookies' conversation before. My young colleagues use it, but not to refer to all biscuits, but rather larger softish ones. I suspect that the shops sell them under this name? But
Chocolate Digestives are still biscuits.
Needless to say we have to do a separate American version for the cook books we publish.

Back to pants, my mother used to call her trousers 'slacks' in the 70s... That's American isn't it?


My Irish granny called trousers slacks and had almost certainly never met an American. I wonder where it comes from!
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby Ratatouille » November 23rd, 2019, 2:22 pm

I suppose slacks because they were't tights :lol:

Mr R came home from Fresh yesterday triumphanly bearing a swede. He said he had asked the girl at the check-out what they were called in France and of course got the answer rutabaga. She couldn't wrap her head around us calling them swedes, because they aren't from Sweden. I have found in France that if I forget a word for a plant, fruit or vegetable and use the Latin name it will be understood.

Herbie what annoys we way beyond "Have you got" is "Can I get?" I'm afraid my d-i-l is guilty.
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby wargarden » November 23rd, 2019, 2:52 pm

well there is also marrows courgettes and zucchini
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby suffolk » November 23rd, 2019, 3:27 pm

Hmmm not really Wargarden :) ... marrows aren’t interchangeable with courgettes or zucchini ... although they’re from the same plant ... it’s the same difference as veal and beef. And zucchini and courgette are simply words from different languages for the same thing ... so that’s merely translation.

With the pants/knickers/trousers confusion the word ‘pants’ is being used for two different items of clothing.
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby earthmaiden » November 23rd, 2019, 3:35 pm

'Slacks' were very popular in the 60s in the UK. I always thought it meant the stretch synthetic trousers popular at the time (which were not considered correct to wear except for leisure - and not at mealtimes). I imagine the term comes from military wear.
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby StokeySue » November 23rd, 2019, 5:49 pm

I recently discovered that in North America generally “underwear” now is reduced to only mean underpants/ undershorts / knickers / briefs and not the whole range of lingerie or other garments you might put on before you donned jeans or skirt and shirt or sweater.
It some N Americans use “knicker” to mean knickerbockers (breeches cuffed below the knee), it amused me when they were briefly fashionable in the 80s

Marks and Spencer underwear department must confuse a few transatlantic travellers, especially at this time of year when the display seems to consist mainly of bright red lacy bras and camis (teddies).

And while we are in the underpinnings section, the US use of “vest” to mean a buttoned waistcoat rather than the kind of undergarment favoured by Marlon Brando in a Streetcar named Desire has always confused me. My father called his a singlet but it was usually a string vest :D

Going back to food, the different US grades of cream (heavy, light, half and half) always confuse being different from ours (double, whipping, single) and I’ve given up trying to understand French cream!
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby Pepper Pig » November 23rd, 2019, 6:40 pm

Artichokes.
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby earthmaiden » November 23rd, 2019, 6:46 pm

They always said singlet instead of vest in Australia - and lollies instead of sweets. You can probably work out the age of what was a colony by the language which stuck!

I did like the start of this thread where we were looking at differences within the United Kingdom. I feel sure there are plenty we haven't touched on.
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby wargarden » November 23rd, 2019, 7:02 pm

suffolk
marrows aren’t interchangeable with courgettes
or zucchini ... although they’re from the same plant .

that is correct courgette and zucchini are from same plant marrows are not.
marrow are from different plant. also roasted bone marrow could be confused with
roasted vegetable marrow.
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby suffolk » November 23rd, 2019, 7:33 pm

Wargarden ... I’m afraid you are mistaken/misinformed. ... I can assure you that marrows grow on the same species of plant that also grows courgettes.. I have gardened and grown and cooked courgettes/marrows for over 40 years and my daughter and several of my friends are professional gardeners.

Marrows are simply large courgettes. The fact that some seeds are sold as courgettes and some as marrows are simply a marketing choice by the seed company.

https://seedtofeedme.blogspot.com/2012/ ... d.html?m=1
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby StokeySue » November 23rd, 2019, 7:38 pm

Pepper Pig wrote:Artichokes.

Oh yes!

And in recipes “a bunch” of herbs.
I thought Sabrina Ghayour was nuts putting all herbs in terms of supermarket 25g packets, then the penny dropped and she did it because even if, as she and I do, you buy big bunches in the market and local shops you can visualise how much to take
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby wargarden » November 23rd, 2019, 11:33 pm

they are similar and not the same.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marrow_(vegetable)
for greater detail on the subject you can read page 143
of The book The Compleat Squash,
if still have questions on the subject should contact
the squash expert Harry Paris.
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby Rainbow » November 23rd, 2019, 11:44 pm

earthmaiden wrote:They always said singlet instead of vest in Australia - and lollies instead of sweets. You can probably work out the age of what was a colony by the language which stuck!

And they still do, EM :) I thought it was just the American influence - even stronger here than in the UK.
I remember visiting a friend in England when our sons were young and they picked up a toy and my son said 'garbage truck' and the English boy said 'no, it's a rubbish lorry'!!
Not sure what they agreed to call it!

suffolk wrote:That is exactly the point Scullion is making ... in English ‘pants’ is a word synonymous with ‘knickers’ and ‘drawers’, and solely used for under-garments ... when using American English it seems to us that you walk down the street in nothing but your underwear

Australians use 'pants' the American way and I still have to stop and think about what they actually mean ;)
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby wargarden » November 24th, 2019, 12:27 am

the origin of pants comes from pantaloons.
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby earthmaiden » November 24th, 2019, 8:52 am

Rubbish, garbage and trash is an interesting one. I would always say 'dustbin lorry' ;). I carefully used the word garbage in the USA, only to find out that my friends, although they knew what I meant, said trash.
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby StokeySue » November 24th, 2019, 9:05 am

Not an ingredient, but a food term
Last night I watched an episode of Rick Stein’s Secret France and he used the word entrée in its original French sense to mean a starter. in On formal British it means the same (on very formal banquet menus it means something arguably something slightly different but it still makes an early appearance, and we mostly aren’t cooking 9 course marathons)

So how in N America does it now mean a main course? The middle course if you have starter, main and a sweet or cheese course. The derivation is obviously from entrer, to come in, and to the English word entrance, it originally means something similar to starter in fact. Odd.

I wrote sweet not dessert or my first thought pudding, because in N America, Germany, and I think Scandinavia pudding is a cold custard thickened with corn starch, which Brits might call blancmange
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby miss mouse » November 24th, 2019, 9:24 am

Aren't gentlemens' braces called 'suspenders' in the US? There was a fashion for women to wear them as well, the decade of fashion disasters I expect.
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby suffolk » November 24th, 2019, 10:17 am

wargarden wrote:they are similar and not the same.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marrow_(vegetable)
for greater detail on the subject you can read page 143
of The book The Compleat Squash,
if still have questions on the subject should contact
the squash expert Harry Paris.


Wargarden ... I have no wish to argue so this will be my final post on the subject on this thread ... I can assure you that I have no need to contact Mr Paris or anyone else on this question ... I am correct ... marrows and courgettes are botanically the same plant ... your link to Wikipedia proves it ... it states "...A marrow is a vegetable, the mature fruit of certain Cucurbita pepo cultivars. The immature fruit of the same or similar cultivars is called courgette (in Britain, Ireland, France, the Netherlands, Singapore, Malaysia and New Zealand) or zucchini (in North America, Australia, Italy, Germany and Austria)..." (my italics).

I grow them both every year ... on the same plants.

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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby Badger's mate » November 24th, 2019, 11:43 am

I've mentioned before that we grow the marrow variety 'Badger Cross'' and hence the fruits are known in this house as badgers.

I think it causes confusion when people see one of our Tupperware boxes labelled 'stuffed badger'.
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby scullion » November 24th, 2019, 2:12 pm

wargarden wrote:the origin of pants comes from pantaloons.

if you google image the word pantaloons, other than a shop of that name, the pictures are mainly of old fashioned, women's bloomers.

sticks of butter are one of the confusing ones that thankfully i rarely have to bother looking up (grams are so much easier). when was it ever produced in a stick form? did the usa have extruders before butter pats? - and cup measurements are always called 'lady measurements' by my partner. they have a huge potential for inaccuracy and i wonder why the settler's descendants carried on using them after they were able to buy a set of scales.
but this is a different area to ingredients which confuse.

ingredient wise, what confuses me is - why are hershey bars are called chocolate?........
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby Seatallan » November 24th, 2019, 2:13 pm

Badger's mate wrote:I think it causes confusion when people see one of our Tupperware boxes labelled 'stuffed badger'.


:D

Not an ingredient but still food-related. I've never been sure of the difference between grease-proof paper and baking parchment. I have both but sometimes use them interchangeably (usually when I don't notice I've taken out the wrong roll) and so far at least they seem to serve the same purpose. Any ideas on the subject?
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby Suelle » November 24th, 2019, 2:28 pm

Seatallan wrote:
Badger's mate wrote:I think it causes confusion when people see one of our Tupperware boxes labelled 'stuffed badger'.


:D

Not an ingredient but still food-related. I've never been sure of the difference between grease-proof paper and baking parchment. I have both but sometimes use them interchangeably (usually when I don't notice I've taken out the wrong roll) and so far at least they seem to serve the same purpose. Any ideas on the subject?


In my experience, grease-proof paper doesn't stick while it's warm, but if you left it on a cake until the cake was cool, it would be difficult to remove, whereas baking parchment would still be non-stick.

This explanation seemed to be true when baking parchment was first introduced, and there were definitely two different products, but the roll I am currently using from Sainsbury's is labelled 'grease-proof and baking paper' and says in the small print that it is non-stick. I'm tempted to think that they have just stopped making old-fashioned grease-proof.
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby Seatallan » November 24th, 2019, 2:46 pm

Ah! Thanks Suelle. Makes sense. :tu:
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby StokeySue » November 24th, 2019, 3:04 pm

I keep meaning to ask a friend in the paper industry what the difference is.
In this house it’s all Lakeland baking parchment as there’s only room for one roll in the drawer, though I do use quite a lot of pound shop pre-cut paper circles

The one that confuses me is “wax paper” - which usually means parchment, but waxed, i.e. wax coated paper does exist and in speech there’s a tendency to add the -ed
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby suffolk » November 24th, 2019, 3:11 pm

I think baking parchment has a silicone coating, waxed paper has a wax coating and baking parchment has no coating.
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Re: Ingredients that confuse.

Postby StokeySue » November 24th, 2019, 3:34 pm

I thought that but No, the Lakeland baking parchment is definitely not siliconised (though siliconised paper I think exists) and muffin cases can be made of “wax paper” so definitely not wax coated

The French call it papier sulfurisée - sulphured paper, which is also incorrect, not sulphured at all, just the same as ours
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