How will we be able to choose ?

[Zosherooney]

I have read some of this before but how will we know ? I suppose it will be cheaper?

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... g-revealed

[suffolk]

Why should it be cheaper?

It's just one of the many reasons I voted to remain. I shall be buying only locally reared traceable meat, and probably only organic. I will only eat out at establishments that do the same and can prove it.

[WWordsworth]

I can only imagine it will be cheaper if the yield is higher, but maybe transport costs will negate that.

[suffolk]

Whoever is selling it will price it at the highest level the customer will pay .... so roughly the same as other meat.

[Suelle]

We'll have to hope that the labelling system will be clear.

However, I know that there are already ways around legislation by 'waffly' labelling, and loosely worded rules - for instance imported meat that is packed in the UK can be labelled to look, at first glance, as if it's British; you have to read the smallest small print on the labelling to be sure of what you are getting.

[WWordsworth]

I look for the red tractor

[Ratatouille]

I would do exactly the same as Suffs if I lived in the UK and just the same as I do here.

[scullion]

of course it won't be cheaper. it will be the same price as any other non organic/non high welfare meat.
it will go into the food chain as any other processed and unprocessed meat does - in the same way that the horse meat did a couple of years ago but with rather more dire consequences to future global health issues rather than just the hurt sensibilities of the lasagne eaters.

is this another example of the result of the interbreeding of hair dressers and telephone sanitisers?

[icelesley]

The US are well known for this. I only buy local now, so I know where it comes from and how its treated. It is a tad more expensive but at least it's safe.

[suffolk]

I look for the red tractor

Afraid that the Red Tractor isn't as reliable as it was hoped it would be

[Busybee]

I only buy meat from either the farm gate or our local butcher who can practically tell you which field an animal grazed in. Yes it’s more expensive but in my mind it’s worth paying to know it’s provenance. However, i’m the first to admit that this is harder to do when eating out.

BB

[Zosherooney]

Shopping with a lot of scrutiny then !

[earthmaiden]

It is widely believed that if people ate less meat then the planet (and all that live on it) would benefit. There is a growing trend for vegetarian and vegan meals to be served either on some days or to be adopted all the time. It seems an ideal time for this plan to go ahead so that we are not so reliant on dodgy foreign meat and enjoy meat from known sources, but less often.

Of course, there is the GM hurdle to jump as well once people have adapted to eating more plants ....

[dennispc]

The straight answer Zosherooney is for the vast majority of people, they won’t be able to as I doubt the packaging will mention antibiotics. We’re fortunate as our butcher knows the source of most of his produce.

earthmaiden, certainly there are countries who realise meat production at its present level is unsustainable - the Dutch in particular have restricted herd levels recently because of effluent issues. As someone who tries to tread lightly on this planet I believe it would do some people a lot of good to cut down on meat and food in general.

Apparently it takes 15,415 litres of water to produce 1 Kg of beef.

But even more to produce 1 Kg of chocolate. Scroll down the link to see the data.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/databl ... tion-waste

[aero280]

Once we start buying stuff from the US, it will be a free for all. Prices will rise because it will all be controlled by entrepreneurial folk and the president is keen on de-regulation and the search for profit. No one in the UK government seems to be able to negotiate a deal. It's going to be a disaster. But then, I didn't vote to leave.

Brexiteers will be reaping the whirlwind soon.

I think we need a second referendum so that people can have second thoughts. I doubt many "remainers" will change their mind.

I like the argument put forward in the House of Lords last week...

"I visited two aged maiden aunts and suggested that we go to the cinema. They were eager to go and got all dressed up, ready and waiting. So I looked to see what films were showing and found there were only two. "Reservoir Dogs" and the "Texas Chainsaw Massacre", neither of which would find favour with the aunts. So do we still go to the cinema because that was the agreement, or do we, perhaps, reconsider?"

[Zosherooney]

I stand by my decision, I do not agree with the idea of keep having referendums until you get the answer you want...... I do wish all the doom and gloom merchants would not blame Brexit on all the negative things they don't like in life...

I was appalled when Tony Blair got into office, he was the worst individual ever to have that position. I did not go on and on about it, I was just glad when he had gone - he should be tried for war crimes .

I realise that I will probably be in trouble for this so I will say no more and hope the rest of the whinging remainers will follow suit.

[suffolk]

You asked the question Zosh ........... we gave you the answer and explained why.

We have elections every four years so we were able to get rid of Tony Blair eventually .........

If only ............

[Zosherooney]

Maybe you misunderstood my question Suff. It was nothing at all to do with Brexit it was about the detail we were going to be furnished with by the main meat authorities in order for us to make an informed decision.

I ate all manner of meats in the USA while we lived there for 10 months, I do have some extra limbs but apart from that I think I am OK?

[scullion]

unfortunately it has a lot to do with brexit, leaving the eu means leaving the sort of legislation that stops this sort of import, which we could be subjected to in a free market economy unless we keep the same sorts of legislations that leavers voted against.

I stand by my decision, I do not agree with the idea of keep having referendums until you get the answer you want...... I do wish all the doom and gloom merchants would not blame Brexit on all the negative things they don't like in life...[...] and hope the rest of the whinging remainers will follow suit.

i have met quite a few people who regret the way they voted. i think it would only take one referendum to get the result the country really wants.

i would rather be a 'remoaner' and have someone to blame than a regrexiter and have only myself to blame.

[aero280]

The EU isn't perfect. but you will only change it if you are inside.

[earthmaiden]

We will just have to trust that the governments we elect in this undemocratic democracy will have scrupulous principles.

The most delicious food I have eaten in the USA has had the most dubious background, that is a problem because generally people tend to make choices according to their tastebuds and purse rather than the long term effect on health and ecology.

[aero280]

If the worst comes to the worst, and we buy food from the USA, we will have to rely on a balanced diet, and hope that the antibiotics in the beef are offset by the chlorine on the chicken and one destroys the other.

[suffolk]

It was nothing at all to do with Brexit it was about the detail we were going to be furnished with by the main meat authorities in order for us to make an informed decision.

The question may have had nothing to do with Brexit Zosh ....... unfortunately Brexit is unavoidably to do with the answer ... as it will be involved in the answer to many questions about labelling and the way our foodstuffs are produced once we're on our own.

[miss mouse]

Don't forget the high fructose corn syrup in processed foods and the hormones in the beef and milk. Trans fats, known about for decades but action taken only recently and only at state level. So much more but hey, it will be slightly cheaper and that is all that matters.

[Zosherooney]

Suff, I do not understand why you think that. We can and hopefully will have our own rules and regulations sorted by a competent body people (nothing to do with the EU) who will advise us minions as to the origins of our food and what is in it. We do not need the EU for that.

[suffolk]

The need for us to cut deals with the rest of the world whose food production practices differ in many ways from our own, rather than members of the EU where minimum standards were agreed and regulated by the ECJ, means that we may have to accept imports of meat from producers whose animal welfare, slaughter and hygiene standards are not what I believe is right.

[miss mouse]

We can and hopefully will have our own rules and regulations sorted by a competent body people (nothing to do with the EU) who will advise us minions as to the origins of our food and what is in it.

It takes years to establish bodies like that and what protection we do have is agreed EU wide. Meanwhile there is a push to do away with meat inspectors in UK abattoirs.

[suffolk]

Also, we have to pay to set up and run the 'competent body' and all the other 'competent bodies' we'll need to regulate stuff in the UK, whereas while we're members of the EU we share the costs. The money that we won't be paying to the EU will be swallowed up in setting up, running and policing all the UK regulatory bodies.

[Ratatouille]

I am not in the least bit interested in cheaper/cheap food. I want food that is ethically and safely produced and for which the producers , wherever they are , are fairly paid.
It's not even a matter of affordable . It shouldn't be that you feed people who don't have sufficient money to eat , fodd that has made the people who produce it even poorer,

It is possible to make food more affordable which is not the same as cheap. It is a matter of priorities and education is a big part of this.
The EU food standards agency is by no means perfect and I would still question some of the practices it allows however it is a great deal better than anything else I have read about, We must of course utterluy discount the "fake news" about such things as straight bananas and the like.

[StokeySue]

We do of course have a Food Standards Agency and various agricultural oversight bodies mainly linked to DEFRA (Department for Environmental, Food and Rural Affairs).
https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department-for-environment-food-rural-affairs/services-information

However at the moment many of the regulations are agreed EU wide, and we will have to make new ones as we go along in line with new trade deals
There is also the issue that if we don't continue to follow EU regs they will not accept our food exports in the other remaining EU countries (same goes for pharmaceuticals and other products of course). I'm so glad I have been retired and nobody can put me on a handling Brexit working party to deal with changes in drug licensing and development. I don't watch the Brexit part of the news, it makes me too angry, Such and awful mistake, and nothing I can do about it.

[suffolk]

...... Such an awful mistake, and nothing I can do about it.

Ditto ..........

[Ratatouille]

Ditto here, and as you can imagine we feel really totally unable to do anything even if by some miracle there was a second referendum because we have lost our right to vote due to the 15 year rule - we still have to pay tax in the UK though!

[miss mouse]

We do of course have a Food Standards Agency

In a manner of speaking

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21476813

[aero280]

Sadly experience leads one to expect that standards will be set by those who make the biggest donations to the ruling party at the time. Standards have been dropping year after year sine the Thatcher days. All the right wing governments since then, including the Blair regime, have sold basic needs to overseas buyers, and now there is little left to sell.

You only have to look at the state of the UK bits that the EU had no control over to see how things will go. Roads are potholed. The NHS is failing and the continuation to sell off more bits (outsourcing... ) is making it all worse. Once we are out of the EU there will be nothing to stop the government of the day selling off the Food Standards Agency to "expert consultants" who will only have an interest in self-profit. They will tell the world how good they are by the example of cheaper food, while at the same time suppressing the lack of safety that the cheapness entails.

The UK is already a third world country. Leaving the EU will allow it to sink further, by which time all those who have sold the country's assets will have taken their cut and gone to their Caribbean island homes. They all look after themselves and their friends. When things go wrong, the government bails their friends out by using our taxes that should be spent on us. Ref. the railways and the banks. When things make a profit, the owners keep the money. The current slogan to keep in mind is...

"Privatising profit. Nationalising Debt".

[StokeySue]

The UK is already a third world country

Sorry, have you actually been anywhere in the developing world? Exaggeration does not help anyone
And no, I'm not happy with the NHS at the moment, but let us not forget it is largely a victim of its own success

[miss mouse]

but let us not forget it is largely a victim of its own success

and nothing to do with funding being the lowest for decades? Even worse than the Thatcher days.

[StokeySue]

I am not going to argue about the details
I just get sick of the ridiculous levels of exaggeration on both sides of all the arguments. It doesn't help.

[Suelle]

Can we all calm down a bit, or I'll have to close the thread - remember your etiquette lessons - never discuss religion, politics and something else I can't remember (possibly salaries).

[miss mouse]

Here you go, that suspect organisation The Kings Fund

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/blog/2014/ ... and-future

There is plenty of info out there if you look. Aero is right, how does the country survive after all the assets have gone?

[cooksalot]

Ditto here, and as you can imagine we feel really totally unable to do anything even if by some miracle there was a second referendum because we have lost our right to vote due to the 15 year rule - we still have to pay tax in the UK though!

So many affected by the decision were denied a vote!
One of the reasons I’m not on here much at the moment is that I am busy with demos, lobbying and Twitter, fighting it tooth and nail. Important to remember that democracy does not suddenly stop. Men denied women voting rights and it took a long and brave battle by sensible and determined people to get that decision overturned!

[Zosherooney]

In 50 to 100 years time Brexit will be viewed as a minor footnote in history along the lines of..... ' In the early part of the 21st century, Britain realigned its trading relationship with its European neighbours'.....

[dennispc]

What concerns me (forgive me for returning to the OP) is not that I might grow an extra limb (always useful) but American meat products contain far more antibiotics than ours and the medical profession is already concerned that increased use will mean bacteria win the day. They also contain growth hormones that we don't use. I don't see that ingesting those chemicals is to our benefit.

The NHS isn't failing - I can see clearly now. All free. A friend updating me on his family, included this in his latest email,

"My sister’s partner retires in March. Medical insurance will then cost them $1500 per month. Each. And that’s on a contribution basis as well. I quite like the NHS when I hear those sorts of figures."

History will see Brexit as significant as the Boston Tea Party.

[dennispc]

NHS. I've just put the phone down - my GP called from the surgery. She organised an ECG for me last week because my blood pressure is high - 170/84, though all my bloods are good.

She's puzzled and is ensuring I've sufficient medication to see me through to my next blood pressure test, because she is on holiday for a week.

People within the NHS are not failing.

[Zosherooney]

Bl**dy hell Denn, it's Sunday evening....... !!!! That's what I call going above and beyond the call of duty....

[dennispc]

Bl**dy hell Denn, it's Sunday evening....... !!!! That's what I call going above and beyond the call of duty....

Too true.

[KC2]

I don't watch the Brexit part of the news, it makes me too angry, Such an awful mistake, and nothing I can do about it.

Yup, me too, Sue

[cooksalot]

...... Such an awful mistake, and nothing I can do about it.

Ditto ..........

Don’t give up! There are lots of people fighting this mistake, not just citizens like me, but Lords, MPs and some celebs too. Everyone can get involved in the opposition to Brexit. It’s not a done deal. It was a gerrymandered vote. Only 37% of the population allowed to vote exercised that right and many of them have now changed their minds. Go on Twitter and look up the hashtag #FBPE

[StokeySue]

I meant nothing I can do about the news - if Mr Davies makes a stupid pronouncement for example

[Ratatouille]

I meant nothing I can do about the news - if Mr Davies makes a stupid pronouncement for example

Mr Davies make a stupid reonouncement Sue. The Brexit Bulldog never does such things

[karadekoolaid]

The UK is already a third world country

No way, sonny!
You want to come over here and see what "third world" really means.
I was in the supermarket yesterday. No meat, no fish, no chicken, no cheese.
No flour, no butter, no cream, no milk.
And when I got home - no water supply and an electricity cut.
According to the inept socialist idiots in power, this is a result of the "economic war" being waged by the Evil Empire. Hahahaha - not.