The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

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The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby StokeySue » September 2nd, 2019, 11:05 am

On Saturday in the hotel where I was staying one of the main options for dinner was grilled gammon steak. Tomato ketchup and mayo were put out for the chips, but mustard was not offered, I had to ask for it

This is not an isolated incident. A week ago we visited a restaurant specialising in sausages. To our surprise mustard was not out on the tables, and the waiter in turn was surprised to be asked for it

And before that I ordered a steak frites in a Brasserie Blanc and was surprised not to be offered mustard, in fact treated as a bit of a nuisance when asking for it

I asked around on Saturday, and other people have found themselves constantly asking for mustard in places where it really should come automatically. In fact the only place you can rely on it seems to be a pub, even Wetherspoons, where you get a tray or basket of all possible condiments routinely

Have you noticed this?

What else should arrive automatically that you either have to request or even turns out to be unobtainable?
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby smitch » September 2nd, 2019, 11:17 am

See I have the opposite problem- I'm allergic to mustard. Even though it is one of the major allergens that has to be declared to customers, I'm often treated like a nuisance when I ask for the allergy menu or for staff to clarify if the mustard is in a component such as slaw or mayo on a burger, for example, or in the patty itself.

On a personal level, I wish places offered more options for condiments other than ketchup, mayo or mustard. I can't have the latter two and am not massively keen on ketchup. French's American mustard is pretty common on tables in loads of places here but not other types. Although my husband was once given a ramekin of English mustard when he asked for French's for his chips :lol:
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby earthmaiden » September 2nd, 2019, 11:37 am

Yes, I certainly have noticed it :evil:. I even wonder if the liking for it (English mustard that is) is dying out with our generation. Neither of my children would choose it and they are in their 40s. My parents would have been surprised if it wasn't offered. It is my condiment of choice with things like bacon sandwiches/rolls too and rarely offered.

Smitch may have a point, maybe these days it isn't immediately offered because of the allergy thing but really I think just fewer people like it. Every so often I go out to Sunday lunch with friends and very often we don't get horseradish sauce unless we ask for it even though they appear to have it ready .

I have a friend who always asks for Tabasco, regardless of what the meal is. I feel quite awkward sometimes, I certainly don't class it as traditional but it is usually produced from the depths of the kitchen :oops: .
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby TeresaFoodie » September 2nd, 2019, 12:10 pm

I adore mustard of any kind on everything, especially English, but have noticed a lack of its appearance.

Sainsbury's café is somewhere I frequented often with my mum before I got this job, and their condiment selection in sachets is second to none. English, French mustards, I have seen horseradish, mint sauce, vinegar, mayo, red and brown sauce, salad cream. Something to cover all tastes there.

I used to have lunch out at a local pub on a Friday with former work colleagues, and a friend used to go on and on and on about how it took me longer to add condiments to my meal than it did for the rest of them to finish eating theirs. :lol: A meal isn't a meal if the condiments to match aren't available and you end up having to ask for them.
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby Herbidacious » September 2nd, 2019, 12:35 pm

Salt and pepper is not infrequently missing, I find, but it depends on the type of establishment. I suspect absence of salt and pepper is more down to the arrogance of the chef than anything else.

I find that in 'gastropubs' they often (usually?) ask you if you want any sauces. None are a given.

At our nearest big Leclerc in Normandy there is a cafe(teria) with salad dressing, mustard etc on pump :)

On a plus side, water in carafes seems to be becoming more common. I often think they shoot themselves in the foot on this front with me, as, as a non-drinker, I only really drink because I am thirsty most of the time. i.e. if I have tap water given to me, I am less likely to order a drink.
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby wargarden » September 2nd, 2019, 1:36 pm

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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby StokeySue » September 2nd, 2019, 1:37 pm

I don’t think allergy is the primary reason for not offering mustard, as nearly everything comes with a mustard based mayo or ranch dressing, mustard derivatives are pretty ubiquitous and must be very hard for Smitch to avoid. Not least because another thing that has disappeared, apart from in the Spaghetti House, is the little bottles of oil and vinegar in a stand, everything comes pre-dressed, usually in commercial dressing that will contain mustard

I suspect that part of the problem is that unless you are prepared to go the diner / Wetherspoons route and use pre-packed squeeze bottles, actual mustard pots turn easily to a crusty mess that is unpleasant to clean out and require a fair amount of product to be discarded to keep them hygienic and presentable
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby StokeySue » September 2nd, 2019, 1:39 pm

Cross-posted Wargarden - that video is apt
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby earthmaiden » September 2nd, 2019, 1:54 pm

The video is just what I always fear might happen when my friend asks for Tabasco! Traditional accompaniments to 'plain' meat are slightly different I feel :D.
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby Ratatouille » September 2nd, 2019, 1:58 pm

Herbie I believe that these days all restaurants in France are obliged to provide water en caraffe when requested. Just as they are supposed to provide doggie bags for any uneaten food. I have a confession to make, I have a very small bottle of Tabasco sauce in my handbag, especially if there is a possibility of oysters because it is not alvays avaialble and while I'm fine with lemon juice, I do not like shallot vinegar.
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby Herbidacious » September 2nd, 2019, 1:58 pm

The thing is, as we get older, our taste buds just aren't the same (there are fewer of them) and we may need a bit of salt? Plus, I think, you get used to a certain amount, and any more or less feels like too much or too little. If one is an infrequent diner, or one who dines in different places, one can't adapt one's palet to match a particular restaurant, and the bottom line is that you want a delicious meal... or so I might say to such a chef :) That said, of course one should taste one's food before putting salt on it. My parents and grandmother always put salt on without tasting first. Bizzarre? Maybe not, if more often than not, food seemed not salty enough.
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby earthmaiden » September 2nd, 2019, 2:06 pm

Yes, it's the adding salt before tasting which is particularly insulting to the chef. I have known people who always sprinkle a copious amount over any food before trying it. I don't know how they could eat it. Of course, at one time you put it on the side of your plate from a salt pot with a spoon rather than shaking it all over the food. That makes more sense because you can choose where or if you want any with each mouthful. Just as you would mustard, horseradish etc. I know I will want mustard in a ham, bacon or sausage sandwich though!
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby Herbidacious » September 2nd, 2019, 3:05 pm

Ah yes, we always used ot put salt on the side. I still do that if I have chips (and porbably thus eat much more salt.)

I do put pepper on things without tasting, often, but pepper (or mustard) isn't doing the same job as salt, really.
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby northleedsbhoy » September 2nd, 2019, 5:37 pm

Mustard is a must for me with ham or beef, I think it enhances the flavour although it's got to be English. I've tried various others and still go back to English. One mustard (if it can be even called that) that I tried and never again want to is the American Yellow stuff that has absolutely has no taste at all....it's more like yellow cream than anything else.

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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby WWordsworth » September 2nd, 2019, 5:59 pm

SFH is partial to Colman's English mustard on buttered toast.
I rather like it too but I don't often think of it.

Spread it as you would Marmite.
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby wargarden » September 3rd, 2019, 3:12 am

yellow mustard is for delicate flavored food and brown for more strong flavored foods.
how I use them;corn beef you can use either but, corn beef tongue ;you use yellow since tongue has lighter flavor.
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby earthmaiden » September 3rd, 2019, 6:22 am

I think that the OP was talking about English mustard. I find it quite interesting how people use the milder mustards too. I rather like 'American' mustard on things like hot dogs. I have never used mustard such as Dijon much apart from as an ingredient.
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby Herbidacious » September 3rd, 2019, 6:41 am

Wargarden, can you get English mustard in the US? If you've not had it, it's on a par with wasabi if you eat too much of it (insert nose imploding emoticon... or maybe not!)

I stocked up on Maille while I was in France last month. So much cheaper than here. I am rather partial to the honey version as well as the Dijon. Wish I'd bought more. Who knows when I can next go.
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby earthmaiden » September 3rd, 2019, 6:44 am

Herbi - what do you do with it?
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby Herbidacious » September 3rd, 2019, 6:53 am

If you are referring to the honey variety, nothing gourmet. I am sure there are gourmet applications... :)

Last night I dipped vegetarian hot dog sausages into it. Good in a sandwich. I have been known to add some to cauliflower cheese. (If you can put miso in cfc, why not honey mustard?!) Would be nice in/on little cheese tarts... It's a bit pricey to cook with in the UK though, but one could make one's own, I suppose.

I did have a version of it that had thyme in it too. Very nice indeed.
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby earthmaiden » September 3rd, 2019, 7:26 am

:chops: nice things! I just wondered if I was missing something as I suspect many people use mustards copiously and I wonder how they are used . The honey mustard sounds lovely :D .
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby Herbidacious » September 3rd, 2019, 7:45 am

My husband is a bit of a mustard fiend. When we eat out, it seems to go on most things. Albeit 'most things' is now slightly fewer things now he has become entirely vegetarian.
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby karadekoolaid » September 3rd, 2019, 10:22 am

Mustard with ham, mustard with sausages, mustard with mortadela, mustard with Pastrami, mustard with rare roast beef, barracuda steaks with mustard sauce, mustard with egg sandwiches, mustard with welsh rarebit...
Oh dear; if mustard is on the way out, there goes one of my favourite condiments!
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby StokeySue » September 3rd, 2019, 11:20 am

earthmaiden wrote:I think that the OP was talking about English mustard. I find it quite interesting how people use the milder mustards too. I rather like 'American' mustard on things like hot dogs. I have never used mustard such as Dijon much apart from as an ingredient.

I was talking about any mustard, which is why I didn’t specify - as two of the restaurants I mentioned were French themed I’d have been happy with Dijon

I quite like American yellow mustard such as French’s in its place, but I don’t regard it as an alternative to Colman’s English mustard or a French Dijon such as Maille or Grey Poupon or for that matter a good German mustard such as Loewensenf (lion mustard). I regard French’s as “yellow sauce” to go with the “red sauce” (ketchup) and “brown sauce” (such as HP, similar to A1 steak sauce) found in UK caffs and diners.
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby Gruney » September 3rd, 2019, 11:25 am

I don't think it's been mentioned, but I'm very fond of whole grain mustard - particularly with ham, gammon, or sausages. But not on bacon butties, oddly enough.
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby suffolk » September 3rd, 2019, 11:52 am

We’re eating ham and tomato rolls today for our lunch ... with a nose-tinglingly lavish amount of Colman’s English Mustard :chops:

Wargarden ... it’s nothing like any of the mustards generally available in the USA ... as was said by a Texan friend of mine ... ‘Once tasted - never forgotten.’
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby wargarden » September 3rd, 2019, 11:58 am

Herbidacious we have lots different mustard's here English being only one them.
Counting all varieties and brands at least 100 mustard and that is bland supermarket not gourmet one.
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby StokeySue » September 3rd, 2019, 12:04 pm

I think when Unilever took over Colman’s in the 90s they worked quite hard on making it a global brand
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby suffolk » September 3rd, 2019, 12:42 pm

Wargarden ... can you buy Colman’s English Mustard Powder over there? My late Pa maintained that the best English mustard was made by mixing with a little malt vinegar ... but when making mustard to be eaten by the Aged Great Aunts the mustard would be made with a little creamy top of the milk.
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby Herbidacious » September 3rd, 2019, 12:50 pm

Wargarden, apologies if my question sounded patronizing. I really don't know what you have in the U.S., having only visited three times, and never on a self catering basis (although obviously I always go into supermarkets, supermarket-phobic husband allowing :) ) Do you mean a 100 different types of mustard, or brand? That's impressive either way.

I just had a veggie sausage sandwich with honey mustard :)

I do like the Dusseldorf ABB mustard. Can't easily buy it here, though.
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby Ratatouille » September 3rd, 2019, 1:18 pm

Following on. I decided to check on my mustard supplies. I am shocked!

I have, in no particular order;
Maille Dijon
" Grain
Coleman's English - powder
Loewensenf
Brive violet mustard - this was the favourite mustard of the Popes in Avignon and they imported their own Moutardier to make it
Burgundy tarragon mustard
Provencal mustard with herbes de Provence
Perigord saffron mustard
Frenchs yellow mustard - the gcs insist ontheir hot dogs
Alsace mustard - for choucroute

No one but no-one needs that number of mustards but I do promise I use then all
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby wargarden » September 3rd, 2019, 1:23 pm

counting different brands over 100 types mustard if my camera working i take picture of mustard section in regular super market. As for posh super market they have 75 types rice ; i never bothered to count the types mustard there. the only time you could not buy Colman's here is during the two world wars.
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby suffolk » September 3rd, 2019, 1:40 pm

Wargarden is that just Colman’s readymade or can you get their Mustard Powder to mix yourself? Freshly-made mustard is so much better than the ready-made. It’s also a useful ingredient in sauces and cheese dishes etc. :chops:
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby suffolk » September 3rd, 2019, 1:45 pm

Aha ... the wonders of Google ... I’ve answered my own question https://colmansusa.com/ :chef:
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby WWordsworth » September 3rd, 2019, 3:17 pm

Sausages for breakfast = HP sauce.

Sausages for dinner = Colman's.
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby Prettykiwicrazy » September 3rd, 2019, 3:36 pm

I absolutely love mustard , though not keen on whole grain . I love English mustard in sandwiches especially cold roast beef . Often have it on the side of a roast . Dijon is great in casseroles etc. I agree in dare I say it common pubs like Wetherspoons it’s readily available , but never really see it in proper restaurants
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby StokeySue » September 3rd, 2019, 3:37 pm

Oddly Rev Richard Coles Tweeted about enjoying a nice mustardy sausage sandwich, and a surprising number of people thought mustard + sausages was a weird combination

I know a family who eat mustard with roast pork and the trimmings, which I think probably is a minority habit, my parents never served it with the hot joint but always with the cold meat eaten with salad or in a sandwich
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby suffolk » September 3rd, 2019, 4:07 pm

Oh no ... my family have always served mustard with a roast joint of meat or a bird (and sausages, ham, chops, chicken joints, game, steak and kidney pudding/pie, rabbit pie, liver & bacon, pork pie etc etc etc) ... the Sunday dinner cruet set was a three piece with a salt cellar, pepper pot and a little lidded mustard pot and spoon.

My ex’s family would also put English mustard on a piece of cheese with crackers or Suffolk rusks
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby Seatallan » September 3rd, 2019, 4:17 pm

Rabbit with mustard is a particularly lovely combination I think. :chops:
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby Herbidacious » September 3rd, 2019, 5:57 pm

One thing I did notice in American supermarkets was how very many different brands there are for each type of grocery item (compared to the UK.) In terms of brand variety, Trader Joe's felt closer to the UK. (Or at least the branch I went to in San Francisco.)

Mustard inventory:
open in the fridge:
Maille honey Dijon
Violette de Brive (a bit/lot on the old side :o )
Edmond Fallot Moutarde de grain
ditto Dijon - are these last two cheapies that OH picked up somewhere when not working?
In the cupboard:
Maille Dijonx3
Maille honey x3
Löwensenf Weisswein
Löwensenf Pffermix
a tiny pot of Maille lemon and garlic (this is very nice.)
powdered Colemans
Some of these were bulk bought on purpose. Others were at the back of the cupboard and have now been brought forward :)
I really need to have a cupboard sorting session...

Everytime I go to France, I look out for, and rarely find, Pommery Moutarde de Meaux for my cat sitter. Why is it so hard to find? It's a lot cheaper in France even in Bon Marche - the only place I have seen it - than in the UK.
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby northleedsbhoy » September 3rd, 2019, 5:59 pm

StokeySue wrote:Oddly Rev Richard Coles Tweeted about enjoying a nice mustardy sausage sandwich, and a surprising number of people thought mustard + sausages was a weird combination

A sausage sandwich has to be eaten with mustard, well in my opinion anyhoo :D

wargarden wrote:yellow mustard is for delicate flavored food and brown for more strong flavored foods.
how I use them;corn beef you can use either but, corn beef tongue ;you use yellow since tongue has lighter flavor.


wargarden, what exactly is 'brown' mustard? The yellow one is tasteless I think so I don't hold out much hope of the brown one being any different. You need to explain what it is.

Cheers
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby Herbidacious » September 3rd, 2019, 6:00 pm

German? I remember my father buying German mustard in the 80s. It was a very unappetizing shade of brown, although this might have denoted it's age... :D
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby StokeySue » September 3rd, 2019, 6:25 pm

The Colman’s site says
What happens when you blend together locally grown and harvested brown and white mustard seeds from Norwich, England? Mustard magic

Brown mustard seed is used in most mustards, as Herbi says many European mustards are brownish

If you look at whole grain mustards you can sometimes see different colours of seeds

I have both yellow and black mustard seeds in my spice cupboard, but don’t think I’ve seen brown seeds on sale as a spice
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby northleedsbhoy » September 3rd, 2019, 7:14 pm

I do like German mustard and I know it’s brown with a distinctive taste but I would be interested in what wargarden classes as ‘brown’ mustard. If it’s as insipid as the yellow variety then it’s probably as tasteless as it’s counterpart.

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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby liketocook » September 3rd, 2019, 7:52 pm

Oh I have mustard envy.
I thought I had a few but obviouslya novice :lol: . My stocks are:-
Maille Dijon
Maille honey
Coleman's English jarred & powder
A Greek one that is quite runny and has a sweet & sour (red wine vinegar?) taste. Fab with koftas, fried halloumi or souvlaki. My son's fiancee's Mum buys it in huge jars so this is a decant into a smaller jar she brought back so unlabelled.
Wholegrain - I use this a lot in sandwiches.
IKEA mustard & dill sauce (not sure this counts ;) )
Does anyone remember the small tubes of Coleman's English Mustard? My Great Uncle who had mustard was most everything used to get these as he could pop it in his inside jacket pocket if he was eating out. :shock: He said it was hotter than the jarred stuff.
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby northleedsbhoy » September 3rd, 2019, 8:23 pm

LTC, Sainsbury’s still sell the tubes of Coleman’s mustard.

Cheers
NLB :tu:
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby liketocook » September 3rd, 2019, 8:27 pm

northleedsbhoy wrote:LTC, Sainsbury’s still sell the tubes of Coleman’s mustard.

Cheers
NLB :tu:

Good see it's still about - possibly one for the handbag/pocket if heading into mustard-free zones ;) :D
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby Herbidacious » September 3rd, 2019, 8:35 pm

Not to be confused with toothpaste...

I don't supsose anyone remembers Bobby Brewster...? You probably have to be over 50.
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby earthmaiden » September 3rd, 2019, 8:50 pm

DD had some Bobby Brewsters but I didn't. Don't remember a story relevant to this though!

I like the tubes of mustard. A pot lasts so long and a tin even longer. When I first visited my American friend I took (after prior discussion) both Marmite and Coleman's mustard powder. Neither were well received (unlike a jar of pickled onions at a later date!).
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Re: The Case of the Vanishing Mustard Pot

Postby suffolk » September 3rd, 2019, 9:53 pm

At the moment the two of us are getting through a large jar of Colmans English approximately every 6 weeks ... plus Maille, locally made wholegrain and a tin of mustard powder which are also used pretty often ... they’re the ones we use the most.
“I am not lost, for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost.” —Winnie-the-Pooh
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