AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Order yourself a latte, and a pastry (The virtual cinnamon buns are excellent today). And have a nice chat.

AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby Grasshopper » October 29th, 2019, 9:10 pm

THIS JUST IN:

There is to be a GE on the 12th December!

You heard it from me first! ;)

Are you peeps going to vote? I am!

:bounce:
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby aero280 » October 29th, 2019, 9:52 pm

I would have preferred a "people's vote" instead. I'm not sure that a general election will help anything.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby WWordsworth » October 29th, 2019, 10:01 pm

Nevertheless I will vote.
Always do.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby Rainbow » October 29th, 2019, 10:53 pm

Grasshopper wrote:Are you peeps going to vote? I am!

Good to hear you'll vote! Living in a country where voting is compulsory it seems strange to see people asking the question :o
We always have elections on a Saturday to try and make it easier for people to vote. And now we have 'pre-election' polling stations where you can go and vote before the day!
The fine for not voting is $20 for a first offence, but people can just spoil their ballot papers if they really don't want to register a vote, although I don't understand why anyone wouldn't want to.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby earthmaiden » October 29th, 2019, 11:46 pm

I always vote but would be more enthusiastic if we had some kind of proportional representation and compulsory voting. I have no idea who I will vote for but it is likely to be a tactical vote. I feel that the outcome will leave us pretty well where we currently are.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby TeresaFoodie » October 29th, 2019, 11:59 pm

I am happy to be shot down here, but I have never voted and don't plan to start now. EM has summed it up perfectly, except I can't even decide who to tactically vote for, such is the nonsensical drivel we have all been fed daily for the past three years, and probably also has a lot to do with the fact that try as I might, I cannot get my brain into politics. So, I will wait for the outcome when it happens, or put another coat of paint up.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby aero280 » October 30th, 2019, 12:15 am

You need to vote for whoever you think stands the best chance of getting a peoples referendum! If we leave Europe, we will become a third rate country that's even worse than it is now. There's already talk of a shortage of Christmas goodies in the shops because there are no "immigrants" left to make them and pack them. There are shortages of medical staff because they can't be certain of being allowed to enter or stay here. There will be no one to harvest the fruit and veg next year. And the international companies are already moving abroad and taking the jobs with them.

Britain will be an empty shell. And the rich mob who deliberately got us into this mess for their own gains, will be off living on their yachts with their money in the Cayman Islands.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby StokeySue » October 30th, 2019, 12:29 am

I will vote, I always do.

But in this case with a distinct lack of enthusiasm
I’m hoping if I ignore it, it will go away
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby Suelle » October 30th, 2019, 7:53 am

Please don't get too political, or the thread will be closed.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby icelesley » October 30th, 2019, 7:58 am

I always vote. I am not sure a General election will solve the brexit stalemate, it will just push it further down the line sadly.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby WWordsworth » October 30th, 2019, 8:39 am

Just a thought Tezza, women died so that we could vote.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby suffolk » October 30th, 2019, 8:40 am

I have never missed a vote ... either local or national ... in the almost 50 years since I was 18 ... I regard it as one of the most important things I do in my life ... people died so that I can vote ... one of the most moving things I’ve ever heard was the interview with Archbishop Desmond Tutu just after he had cast his vote for the first time. My vote is just as important as his.


I listen to political discussions and read articles with a variety of opinions ... I vote in accordance with the party whose ethos is most closely aligned with my own and for the individual I believe will cast their vote in parliament in accordance with that ethos.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby earthmaiden » October 30th, 2019, 8:51 am

I do think that with our current first past the post system, that to vote for exactly who you would like, unless it is the person most likely to win, can be a wasted vote and even assist a person or party whose ethos is least closely aligned with one's own. I think you have to think very carefully and hope that you choose in such a way that the end result is closest to your liking. That's why I am hugely in favour of PR and compulsory voting, I think that the results would be a far better reflection of what voters really want and it would introduce new blood into the system.

I choose to vote for reasons already stated but each person currently has a choice as to whether or not they participate which they are allowed to make freely.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby dennispc » October 30th, 2019, 9:28 am

I think I’m right in thinking that none of the main parties have a first past the post system to elect their leaders, but won’t use it for General Elections. I find that odd, but we had a referendum to change the system and the nation voted against.

We postal vote. For those who feel they don’t know who to vote for, then write, ‘none of the above’ which spoils your paper. All spoilt papers are shown to the candidates and might give politicians something to think about.

Like others of you I don’t think the result will solve anything, people will interpret the results as they see fit.

At the moment I think I’m voted tactically. Realistically my only choice.

I’d have been in favour of Dec 9th, simply to shorten the time.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby aero280 » October 30th, 2019, 9:45 am

Our current MP is a Gilbert & Sullivan character. He is working his way up the party structure by agreeing with and voting for everything his leader tells him too. One day he may become a modern Major General...
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby earthmaiden » October 30th, 2019, 10:17 am

dennispc wrote:we had a referendum to change the system and the nation voted against.


... which wasn't surprising given the form of PR they offered :evil:.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby Meganthemog » October 30th, 2019, 10:27 am

I do hope that this topic is closed as I don't think politics has a place on this board.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby Suelle » October 30th, 2019, 10:30 am

Meganthemog wrote:I do hope that this topic is closed as I don't think politics has a place on this board.


At the moment, politics aren't really being debated. The voting system can be rationally discussed without disagreement, I hope. But I will be keeping an eye on things!
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby Seatallan » October 30th, 2019, 11:10 am

Exactly what Suffs said..... :tu:
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby scullion » October 30th, 2019, 11:49 am

earthmaiden wrote:I always vote but would be more enthusiastic if we had some kind of proportional representation and compulsory voting. I have no idea who I will vote for but it is likely to be a tactical vote. I feel that the outcome will leave us pretty well where we currently are.

snap.
we used to vote in our major officials at school using prop. rep. it wasn't that difficult. it was all run by the pupils, for the pupils and the kids never complained about the outcome.
i thought people were misinformed and where there was information it was over complicated, during the lead up to the p.r. vote. the first past the post system will rarely give the majority of the populace the feeling that they've actually had a say in which party gets in to govern.
i, too, always vote. it gives me the right to rail against whichever party gets in that i didn't vote for.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby TeresaFoodie » October 30th, 2019, 6:37 pm

WWordsworth wrote:Just a thought Tezza, women died so that we could vote.


Yes, I am well aware. I am also aware that many other people have died for many other reasons, not just politics, or democracy, but religion, war, but it does not change my stance. In fact, the rest of this discussion has gone in one eye and out of the other, my brain is just not geared up for it for whatever reason. It could be that although I loved both of my maternal grandparents to the moon and back, the one thing they always argued about was politics. I don't mean full blown fisty cuffs or anything like that, just the same old thing every day as my nan sat and read The Sun and my granddad read The Mirror. They truly were a magical couple, until their daily rags arrived, then they'd be off. :lol: :luv: I used to be good at closing my ears to it. :grin:
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby Pepper Pig » October 30th, 2019, 7:16 pm

Teresa, if you don't vote you are just as responsible for the government we get than if you do. Why not use your intellect?
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby WWordsworth » October 30th, 2019, 7:33 pm

I agree with Scullion.
Those who choose not to use their vote are not really entitled to complain.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby Ratatouille » October 30th, 2019, 7:56 pm

It is important that we vot because this is probably the last time we will be able to do so, either because we have our French citizenship or because we have lived her too long and, after 15 years we loose the right. I thought it was quite choice that they abandoned the vote on allowing 16-17 year have the vote or that Eu citizens in the uk could do so. We have petitioned MPs and party leader for years to no avail.

WE had to arrange a proxy vote because in the Europeans we didn't get our postal votes in time. As yoalu may have gathered we are both and always have been quite political. I totally agree with the voting system.

We had to bite our tongues several times last week when s-i_l was here. She is a no deal Brexiter and somewhere to the right of Gengis Kann - like her father before her.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby TeresaFoodie » October 30th, 2019, 8:32 pm

Oh hang on, by not voting then I am just as responsible.....why not use my intellect.....not entitled to complain.....

I have heard it all before. Yawn.

I have about as much passion for politics as there is in my little toe. I would rather stand beside my friend, who has been campaigning tirelessly for disabled rights, and see changes, or watch success due to the battles that go on to save our environment for all creatures who live on it, help in any way that I can to support anti animal cruelty organisations, satisfyingly positive ways of using my intellect, than spend a single second of my time in the same way that a very dear relative of mine does, going to demos, marches, rallies, having stand up arguments with family members at get togethers in the name of the Labour party, and still Boris gets in. I will leave that to the likes of her :luv: and I'll happily carry on doing my own thing.

This lady is not for turning. :rolleyes:
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby Pepper Pig » October 30th, 2019, 8:37 pm

You really don’t get it do you Teresa?
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby Pepper Pig » October 30th, 2019, 8:47 pm

TeresaFoodie wrote:.

I have about as much passion for politics as there is in my little toe. I would rather stand beside my friend, who has been campaigning tirelessly for disabled rights, and see changes, or watch success due to the battles that go on to save our environment for all creatures who live on it, help in any way that I can to support anti animal cruelty organisations, satisfyingly positive ways of using my intellect, than spend a single second of my time in the same way that a very dear relative of mine does, going to demos, marches, rallies, having stand up arguments with family members at get togethers in the name of the Labour party, and still Boris gets in. I will leave that to the likes of her :luv: and I'll happily carry on doing my own thing.

This lady is not for turning. :rolleyes:
. Try using “politics” for making a change Teresa.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby Grasshopper » October 30th, 2019, 9:15 pm

WHOA! :shock: Let's not get into an argument, please, or we could lose this thread. Tezza doesn't want to vote - that's her choice - it is a free country, after all, but I SHALL be voting - I always do.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby WWordsworth » October 30th, 2019, 9:16 pm

I'd like voting to be compulsory.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby Busybee » October 30th, 2019, 10:45 pm

WWordsworth wrote:I'd like voting to be compulsory.


Absolutely agree.

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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby karadekoolaid » October 30th, 2019, 10:58 pm

I recently read a book on voting patterns across the world. NOT, might I say, because I wanted to, but because I was helping a student to write an essay.
Voting used to be considered a civic duty. Not voting was considerma?ed weak. These days, young voters ( 18-35) no longer believe in "Civic Duty"; voting, for them, is a choice, or a right ( which may, or may not be exercised). Oldies ( and Wildies) still think it is a duty.
In the sixties and seventies, TV/Media was dominated by a few - in the case of the UK, BBC and ITV. There were news broadcasts every day, and specific politically-oriented programmes ( Panorama?) on a regular basis, which informed people of what was going on. There was nothing else to watch.Once Internet, cable TV and Netflix got a hold, you could watch anything you wanted. 24 hours of sport, 24 hours of travel channel, 24 hours of history, or play 24 hours of Candy Crush. There was a choice.Given that choice, would a young voter watch a boring MP rabbiting on about social services, or play Candy Crush?
However, the plot thickens. Political campaigns are very expensive, so candidates concentrate on those people who are interested in what they have to offer. The younger generation doesn´t really care, so the focus is on the oldies. Policies which benefit the younger generation are placed at the bottom of the pile. Catch-22: the original meaning "any pilot requesting mental evaluation for insanity—hoping to be found not sane enough to fly and thereby escape dangerous missions—demonstrates his own sanity in creating the request and thus cannot be declared insane".
And just for the record: those countries which have obligatory voting have far more spoiled votes ( and votes for minor candidates, like the Monster Raving Loony Party) than those countries which provide a choice.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby aero280 » October 30th, 2019, 11:30 pm

You can gauge the interest in politics by the very low scores that occur when contestants in TV quiz shows are asked to identify politicians, or name prime ministers. Almost as bad as the answers in geography questions. We have become a very inward looking country. :(
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby TeresaFoodie » October 31st, 2019, 12:08 am

Pepper Pig wrote:You really don’t get it do you Teresa?


Get what exactly? Democracy?

Thanks Grassy, a bit of peace would be nice wouldn't it? Enjoy your day at the polls. :hug: :hug: :hug:
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby icelesley » October 31st, 2019, 8:13 am

Peeps, calm down, it's each to there own as they say, we all have opinions. Play nicely :D
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby earthmaiden » October 31st, 2019, 9:10 am

I quite agree that in order to keep this discussion going and interesting we should fully respect the personal choices of our fellow Wildies.

I agree with what some of aero says but am so hopeless at remembering what well known people look like I doubt I could name many in a quiz even though I follow what's going on (and of course radio doesn't have pictures). When asked to name PMs my mind goes straight to Macmillan and then I have to work it out from there :oops:. My peak interest in current affairs was in my teens when we had a period at school in which we discussed them and which fuelled my interest for life, I hope such classes still exist. There will always be some who are keen from a young age, some who blindly follow their family beliefs, some who do exactly as 'their paper' tells them and some who don't care and also whose life experiences give them varying priorities. Looking at the Brexit thing over the past few years highlights how complicated it can all be and I take my hat off to anyone who hasn't lost the plot at some point.

To engage with people the messages should be conveyed to the public in a simpler but unbiased manner so that they can understand but need to think, rather than the horribly biased newspapers, media and social media. Guess I'd better dream on!
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby Seatallan » October 31st, 2019, 9:23 am

earthmaiden wrote:To engage with people the messages should be conveyed to the public in a simpler but unbiased manner so that they can understand but need to think, rather than the horribly biased newspapers, media and social media. Guess I'd better dream on!


There's a great deal of truth in what you say EM.

I'm all for compulsory voting actually, though I think there should be a stick & carrot (and that polling day should then be a BH as I believe it is in Oz for example) but I definitely agree that there's much to be done to make people feel they have some ownership over the political process.

One of the reasons I believe the EU became so unpopular was that people in general felt unconnected to the institution. It used to really annoy me when it came to MEP elections that we saw neither hide nor hair of our MEP's or their representatives. I wouldn't have known ours if they'd jumped up and bit me, let alone anything about their views or what they were doing to represent their constituencies at Brussels. Such a wasted opportunity. I'm a remainer and always have been, but I can understand why so many people feel the EU has nothing (or nothing positive at least) to do with them and their lives.

Anyway.... moving swiftly on..... :)
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby Pepper Pig » October 31st, 2019, 9:27 am

I agree with both of you EM and Seatallan. But Aero surely the politicians themselves are not as important as the policies they promote. Voters should be looking at that rather than the personalities.

(Having said that I am so pleased that the awful Nicky Morgan is standing down as an MP).
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby scullion » October 31st, 2019, 9:32 am

WWordsworth wrote:I agree with Scullion.
Those who choose not to use their vote are not really entitled to complain.


hmm, not strictly what i said as i was referring just to my own right. i think dictating what others should do just because that's what i think is best would make me a bigot.
i think voltaire should be heeded - 'think for yourself and let others enjoy the privilege of doing so too'.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby karadekoolaid » October 31st, 2019, 3:23 pm

I agree with Scullion.
Those who choose not to use their vote are not really entitled to complain.


Of course they do. This is an inclusive, not exclusive democracy. It´s the same argument the Union leaders use to twist other´s arms into joining their clique " we negotiate the benefits, but if you don´t join us, you won´t get them". And they do anyway, because collective contracts are in place.
Voting is a right, but it can be a duty OR a choice.What´s more, we´re in a free society; so if people want to vote - or not - it´s entirely up to them
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby aero280 » October 31st, 2019, 4:38 pm

Way back in the day after a particularly poor government performance, especially on road building, there were car stickers that said "Don't blame me. I didn't vote". :o
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby Ratatouille » October 31st, 2019, 7:33 pm

Fear not Nigel and the Donald will sort everything - that shouldreassure everyone.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby Rainbow » October 31st, 2019, 11:29 pm

Ratatouille wrote:Fear not Nigel and the Donald will sort everything - that shouldreassure everyone.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Seatallan wrote:I'm all for compulsory voting actually, though I think there should be a stick & carrot (and that polling day should then be a BH as I believe it is in Oz for example)

I presume a BH is a Bank Holiday? In Oz they are called Public Holidays - nothing to do with banks!! But we don't get one of them for election day - they just always have elections on a Saturday, which is supposed to be most convenient for most people. But we don't get an 'extra' holiday out of it so not much of a 'carrot' :(
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby dennispc » November 1st, 2019, 12:24 pm

'think for yourself and let others enjoy the privilege of doing so too'.


Here's some of my thoughts.

Although I think everyone should vote, I’ve warmed to Teresa’s spirited comments. What her lovely grandparents were doing was debating the nitty gritty of party politics.

We use the term ‘democracy’ pretty loosely - in a true democracy every voice is heard. Our system is a parliamentary one, meaning my voice, and yours, is channelled through someone else (an MP). And they do not act freely, the party whips control how they vote.

A disabled person’s voice is also lost through the ballot system, but by campaigning publicly for disabled rights they are being far more active politically than my simple cross.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby Seatallan » November 1st, 2019, 4:16 pm

Rainbow wrote:I presume a BH is a Bank Holiday? In Oz they are called Public Holidays - nothing to do with banks!! But we don't get one of them for election day - they just always have elections on a Saturday, which is supposed to be most convenient for most people. But we don't get an 'extra' holiday out of it so not much of a 'carrot'


Ah- I was misinformed. Had it in my mind that polling day was a PH in Oz...

Well, I therefore suggest polling day is always made a BH. :D
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby suffolk » November 1st, 2019, 4:46 pm

A bank holiday for everyone apart from the local authority employees etc who have to work to open and staff the buildings, the tellers, police etc? That’ll make elections more expensive ‘cos I expect those folk will have to be paid extra for working on a bank holiday.
Plus if those people have children there may be additional childminding costs because schools and after school clubs will be closed.
Also there’s usually restricted public transport on bank holidays too ... that might cause problems for some voters.
:D
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby aero280 » November 1st, 2019, 4:59 pm

Pinched from the internet!!

Screen Shot 2019-11-01 at 16.58.02.png
http://www.saabtechtalk.com/
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby Ratatouille » November 1st, 2019, 9:07 pm

It is extremely difficult tp explain the UK voting system to our friends and neighbours who are already aasking when the second round is and why is voting on a Thursday and not a Sunday when fewer pople are working?
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby TeresaFoodie » November 2nd, 2019, 1:29 am

I mentioned this conversation to my hair stylist today. She is 18, maybe 19. She looks older. She has had rudeness from the older generations telling her that it's her generation's fault the country is in this mess. How rude! She's a lovely, hard working girl with, from what I can tell since she has been chopping my mop, has good moral standards. She simply tells them she wasn't even old enough to vote when all this Brexit mallarky began. It made me think, my early memories of being aware of there being an election I believe I was eight years old when Thatcher was voted in. I remember feeling slightly traumatised by it! Not sure why. Must have been listening to comments being made around me. I can imagine anyone under voting age now must be wondering what is this shambles all about? Why is the Queen involved? Why can't they make their minds up? It could possibly create the birth of a new generation of politically minded individuals who want to learn how to do a better job. Either that or they'll be put off for life.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby scullion » November 2nd, 2019, 1:51 am

TeresaFoodie wrote: She has had rudeness from the older generations telling her that it's her generation's fault the country is in this mess.

well, that's one way for the shrinkies to assuage their guilt, isn't it?
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby earthmaiden » November 2nd, 2019, 7:37 am

I think it's been great for encouraging youngsters to participate and discuss. It's a shame it's such an emotive subject that so many people are rude and blinkered though. It would be so nice if the subject could be discussed openly anywhere. How can one learn without hearing differing opinions at any age? Poor hairdresser :(.
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