AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Order yourself a latte, and a pastry (The virtual cinnamon buns are excellent today). And have a nice chat.

Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby Seatallan » November 2nd, 2019, 10:35 am

suffolk wrote:A bank holiday for everyone apart from the local authority employees etc who have to work to open and staff the buildings, the tellers, police etc? That’ll make elections more expensive ‘cos I expect those folk will have to be paid extra for working on a bank holiday.
Plus if those people have children there may be additional childminding costs because schools and after school clubs will be closed.
Also there’s usually restricted public transport on bank holidays too ... that might cause problems for some voters.
:D


Yes, good point Suffs. I can see I'll have to work on it. Mind you, schools/after school clubs tend to be closed on polling day anyway (as so often local school is the polling station).

Tell you what- how about free buns for anyone turning up to vote? :D
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby earthmaiden » November 2nd, 2019, 11:08 am

Well, the rich tea biscuit works for oldies cinema - I think a bun would work wonders :lol:. Iced Belgian buns maybe - and coffee?
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby suffolk » November 2nd, 2019, 11:13 am

Iced Belgian buns, croissants, pasteis de nata, panettone ... anything along those lines would suit me :chops:
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby TeresaFoodie » November 2nd, 2019, 3:15 pm

Are polling stations as dull these days as I remember them when I would go along with my mum so that she could put her cross in a box, shielding it with her hand of course! They always seemed such solemn places. Maybe the whole event does need livening up a bit, instead of making you feel like you're going to a funeral. How about a spot of live music, I'm thinking small brass bands. Refreshments - what a wonderful idea! Give us something to remind us of the fact that this is a right that has been earned by those who fought for it.

The 12th December has been discussed at length on local radio here. One morning we had a phone in. Will anyone with plans already be rescheduling to accommodate? Most callers said no, too late. Christmas holidays, visiting folks, a lot of people I heard say they have voted all their life but not this one. I personally would have to make a fair trek in the dark on my own after work to get to my nearest polling station, no doubt in the rain, wind, snow, whatever, and I am fairly able bodied. A lot aren't, or have no car. No thanks.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby suffolk » November 2nd, 2019, 4:14 pm

I broke my foot a few days before the last election ... I called a cab and OH helped me and my Zimmer get to the polling booth. The officials there told me that if I’d rung them they could’ve arranged for me to appoint someone I trust to cast my vote on my behalf ... a Proxy vote. They could also arrange a Postal Vote for me. I now have a Postal Vote for all elections in case of illness or accident ... but I actually used to like the process of turning out and voting.
Also if you ring any of the local political party HQs they will arrange free transport to get you to the Polling Station. You don’t have to vote for that party
In fact I knew someone with a mischevious attitude who made a point of using transport from the party she was not going to vote for ;)

I don’t want the Polling station dressed up like a fete ... voting is a serious matter ... and anyway bunting and music etc would only get in the way of ensuring the secrecy of every individual’s vote. There is clear legislation about signage etc and what can and can’t go on in a polling station ... and IMHO thats exactly as it should be.

There’s plenty of time for fun and celebration when the result has been declared.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby Pepper Pig » November 2nd, 2019, 4:21 pm

Our polling station is an exceptionally beautiful church. The vicar would go ballistic if due reverence was not observed. Round here these days schools don’t completely close. An area for voting is cordoned off and some year groups get the day off. Teachers do not. Those people who work at the polling stations are extremely well paid.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby suffolk » November 2nd, 2019, 4:28 pm

Most councils pay £100 for a 15 hour day to a polling station clerk.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby Pepper Pig » November 2nd, 2019, 4:50 pm

Well my cleaner did it for years and it was a great "bonus" for her. She always reckoned it paid for the kids' Christmas. She'd previously worked as a clerk for Brent Council. I wonder if Greater London pays a bit more what with London Weighting and all that.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby Pepper Pig » November 2nd, 2019, 4:52 pm

TeresaFoodie wrote: How about a spot of live music, I'm thinking small brass bands. Refreshments - what a wonderful idea! Give us something to remind us of the fact that this is a right that has been earned by those who fought for it.


So who is going to pay for the "small brass bands" and the "refreshments?
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby suffolk » November 2nd, 2019, 4:57 pm

Some of the richer councils pay more ... they can pay up to £250 but according to a friend ‘in the know’ that sort of amount is very unusual in these days of austerity. No one who belongs to a political party is allowed to do the job ... and there are other regulations.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby MagicMarmite » November 2nd, 2019, 5:17 pm

I'll vote as always, my Daughter's first time too.
I feel its important to have my say, and so far Dd thinks so too.
If you think it's like attending a funeral, I can only assume you've not been to any, no one has died, and I won't be grieving either parent, several friends, people I cared for in my previous job, or a close friend's 9yr old.
A brass band, or woodwind with your clarinet Tezza, perhaps bagpipes here in Scotland, aren't needed, it takes 5 minutes, tops.
Whilst I rarely share publicly what my vote will be, and will keep to that, it won't be Tory, the way they have treated disabled people is disgusting, and I am one of those.
Tezza, with everything that has happened to you, I'm surprised you don't want to say a big no to them too.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby Pepper Pig » November 2nd, 2019, 5:33 pm

suffolk wrote:Most councils pay £100 for a 15 hour day to a polling station clerk.


Again I have to say not round here. That is below the minimum wage for a start and you would not get school leavers manning the polling stations.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby WWordsworth » November 2nd, 2019, 6:12 pm

When I was out of work earlier this year I did a stint for the council, processing postal votes.
The pay was reasonable and welcome.

I was interviewed, had to do a counting test and a reading test.
I was asked 3 times if I had ever belonged to a political party or ever done any paid or unpaid work for one.

Then I had to sign a declaration to that effect.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby TeresaFoodie » November 2nd, 2019, 6:32 pm

Hmmm, a lot of assuming and unnecessary unpleasantness going on here. I'll let you all get on with it.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby suffolk » November 2nd, 2019, 6:34 pm

Unpleasantness? Where? :?
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby Pepper Pig » November 2nd, 2019, 6:42 pm

I can’t see any. Is normal adult debate isn’t it?
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby MagicMarmite » November 2nd, 2019, 6:47 pm

It's possible it was me?
Sorry if so, I do feel quite strongly about it though especially when it comes to the issue of disability.
Anyway, I've had my say, so I'll leave it at that. :)
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby karadekoolaid » November 2nd, 2019, 6:50 pm

Polling stations are not meant to be interesting. They´re there for the unique purpose of collecting votes. They´re functional - like public toilets.
Think yourselves lucky you don´t have to vote in Venezuela.
First of all, you have to queue; sometimes for hours (I twice queued for 10 hours to vote against Chávez, with no food or water).
Then you have to go through a security check, undertaken by army squaddies, to make sure you´re not carrying a concealed weapon.
Then you have to show some identity ( we all have compulsory National Identity cards) to prove who you are. Your identity number is run through the National Electoral Council system, to ensure that (a) you are who you say you are; (b) your identity card is not false; and (c) that you are registered to vote.
After that, you have to register your digital ID.
When you finally get to the voting station, your name is once again checked on the "official" list.
You then get to vote. You choose your candidate and the system issues you with a receipt, which states for whom you voted.
Once you have voted ( electronically), you have to put the electronic receipt into a box,just to make sure.
THEN you go to a desk where (a) you are obliged to sign against your name on the electoral register and put your fingerprint against it. ( Just in case you can´t write)
THEN they dip your little finger in indelible blue ink, to "Prove" that you have voted.
Finally, you leave the voting station and go home to celebrate yet another fraud, preferably with a cold beer.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby earthmaiden » November 2nd, 2019, 7:43 pm

A sombre warning karadekoolade :kneel:. We don't realise how lucky we are sometimes.

I am trying to apply to be a polling clerk at this or future elections. DD has done it a lot as has a friend of mine here. They pay £135 here. I would be delighted to receive that for a one-off day.

I was once in Australia on an election Saturday. My friends went into the hall to vote. Outside, the local scouts held a sausage sizzle and cake sale and once people had voted they enjoyed the offerings in a happy atmosphere and the scouts made money. It worked well.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby suffolk » November 2nd, 2019, 8:07 pm

I usually used to vote on my way to work in the morning ... it only took 5 mins ... but sometimes, if the weather was nice, OH and I would stroll down to the polling station and then onto the pub for a pint after supper.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby MagicMarmite » November 2nd, 2019, 8:19 pm

Actually I'd never even thought of a drink after, but now my daughter is old enough to vote and drink, we could go for a margarita afterwards, a local place makes really good ones.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby Prettykiwicrazy » November 2nd, 2019, 8:22 pm

I can't see any unpleasantness . My personal view is that if people don't vote , their right to complain about what the government is doing is less, as they passed by an opportunity to change it . I also think politics encompasses all kinds of social issues, such as disability rights, health and social care issues , which I'd imagine affect all of us either directly or indirectly .

For people to say they're not interested in politics is to me ridiculous , as politics concerns our everyday life. I work in health and social care and a lot of what has happened with the Tories , has affected the people I work with , unfortunately detrimentally . One of the ways I can help to fight this , is to vote against the government that is responsible . My personal opinion of course
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby WWordsworth » November 2nd, 2019, 10:51 pm

I saw no unpleasantness either, just members describing their experiences.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby Rainbow » November 2nd, 2019, 11:05 pm

WWordsworth wrote:I saw no unpleasantness either, just members describing their experiences.

I agree with that.
earthmaiden wrote:I was once in Australia on an election Saturday. My friends went into the hall to vote. Outside, the local scouts held a sausage sizzle and cake sale and once people had voted they enjoyed the offerings in a happy atmosphere and the scouts made money. It worked well.

Yes, there is often a sausage sizzle and where we used to live the Country Fire Service had an information stall and raised money (it's all volunteers on the country fire trucks). It' was a pleasant atmosphere and people catch up and have a chat - but that was a country town. Bit different in the suburbs, perhaps.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby suffolk » November 3rd, 2019, 8:23 am

I’m making no judgements here ... ‘walk a mile in their shoes’ and all that.

I believe that society must’ve failed if intelligent folk feel unable or disinclined to vote. Politics affects everything we do and every part of our lives, from the hours we work, the conditions we work in and the money we are paid, to support for the less able, the collection of our rubbish, the plastic in the sea and the pollution in the air we breathe.

All these things are the result of debate and legislation in parliament by the people we elect to investigate, discuss and make decisions. We should vote for people who we believe will make decisions in society’s best interests ... for the well-being of all of us.

If our politicians are arrogant and self-serving it is because they are the ones we’ve voted for. A philosopher said that in a democracy ‘we get the leaders we deserve’. The horrors resulting from neglect and cost cutting regarding the Grenfell Tower shows what happens when people who are motivated by financial gain rather than the common good get into powerful positions. Only by turning out and voting even at the local elections will we ever stand a chance of getting politicians who care about the population rather than themselves.

It’s such a shame that so few people vote in local elections ... they’re really important ... they’re how most politicians get their feet on the first rungs of the ladder leading to Parliament.

Democracy shouldn’t work from the top down ... it should work from the bottom up.

We’re the ones with the real power, but so many people just choose not to use it.

But there’s no other way to change the status quo, short of civil war ... and I don’t suppose even the non-voters think that’s an acceptable option.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby earthmaiden » November 3rd, 2019, 10:20 am

Rainbow wrote:Bit different in the suburbs, perhaps.

My experience had a similar feel to that which you describe and was in a Sydney suburb.

Suffs, whilst my opinion is similar to yours, as it currently stands, everyone has a right to act as they please. I think that many do not feel that their vote counts due to the first past the post system ( if for instance you live somewhere where a popular figure stands, it can feel as though your vote never counts for anything if you prefer someone else). I realise that it could be argued that the result might be different if everyone voted and that we have rights because we do have choice but even then the winner may not always receive over 50% of the total votes . I know I harp on about it but feel so strongly that the time is ripe for PR and compulsory voting. I went to a very good evening of debate recently where our prospective Labour candidate spoke for an hour on whether Britain was truly democratic. She was an intelligent woman and the talk unbiased and refreshing. The conclusion at the end, after interesting debate, was that politics would be transformed by such changes - with the proviso that spoiled papers would be acceptable. I hasten to add that I still have not decided who I will vote for but I feel heartened that many up and coming politicians are intelligent and favour cross party discussion. That, together with a more digestible media coverage should, if handled well, engage more people.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby suffolk » November 3rd, 2019, 10:30 am

Oh I absolutely agree with you EM ... I’ve supported the Lib Dem call for a fair system of proportional representation since I was old enough to vote ... and before they were Lib Dems :lol:

And I agree that everyone is free not to vote if that’s their choice .... but I also think it’s a shame that so many do choose not to ... for whatever reason.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby liketocook » November 3rd, 2019, 10:32 am

Postal vote for me to avoid potentially not being well enough to get to the polling station on the day.
As somone who is generally pretty liberal on her views about what is imposed on people to do I actually believe that voting should be compulsory (provided there is an "abstaining" option on the ballot paper) it was a hard battle to get the universal vote in the UK. PR is long overdue and it would interesting to see how it did or didn't change the political landscape across the UK. I also think the voting age should be reduced to 16 which we recognise as the age of consent already, if legally a young person is old enough to be able give to consent to sex then to me if follows they are old enough to place a vote.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby Seatallan » November 3rd, 2019, 12:24 pm

Whole system could do with an overhaul couldn't it?

I'm with LTC on compulsory voting (with the same proviso) and I very much like the idea of fund-rasing sausage sizzles and cake sales outside the polling station if appropriate.

Mr S and I traditionally always vote early in the evening and pop to the pub for a drink afterwards. We've done that ever since we were together. :D
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby suffolk » November 3rd, 2019, 1:53 pm

I think you have to be careful about holding sausage sizzles etc ... as someone will always feel there’s some sort of political affiliation even if there isn’t ... I’ve come across parents who won’t let their children go to cub scouts because they’re too middle class and by extension ‘Tories’ ... other folk feel that such organisations have military links and are therefore ‘Tory’. . If there’s a way of ensuring that those who run an event aren’t going to deter anyone from voting that’s fine ... but the British are a suspicious cynical lot.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby WWordsworth » November 3rd, 2019, 2:35 pm

I'm a first thing in the morning voter, on my way to work.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby Seatallan » November 3rd, 2019, 3:22 pm

suffolk wrote:I think you have to be careful about holding sausage sizzles etc ... as someone will always feel there’s some sort of political affiliation even if there isn’t ... I’ve come across parents who won’t let their children go to cub scouts because they’re too middle class and by extension ‘Tories’ ... other folk feel that such organisations have military links and are therefore ‘Tory’. . If there’s a way of ensuring that those who run an event aren’t going to deter anyone from voting that’s fine ... but the British are a suspicious cynical lot.


True enough. I see your point- something that would work in a different country wouldn't necessarily sit with our psyche would it? I suppose if it was very obviously a (non contentious) charity fundraiser... Age Concern, or Macmillan, or an animal rescue charity or whatever... but perhaps even then it wouldn't be appropriate here...

On the scouts thing, my dear departed friend was very much of that way of thinking and wouldn't let her son join the cubs. He was a member of the Woodcraft Folk instead. Mr S was in the Boys Brigade for a time when he was a lad, somewhat against his parent's wishes as he grew up in a Catholic family. Apparently the local priest was furious about it.. :)
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby aero280 » November 3rd, 2019, 3:22 pm

Our polling station is in the school three doors down the road! :)

If there was a sausage sizzle anywhere near a UK polling station at the moment, I think the things they sizzled would be effigies of various notable figures. So you would end up with several competing sizzlers... :D
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby suffolk » November 3rd, 2019, 4:12 pm

Our Polling Station is in the huge Mormon Church complex down the road. The voting is done in the hall where we play tennis ... just as well elections aren’t on Wednesdays. :lol:
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby earthmaiden » November 3rd, 2019, 4:24 pm

Oh I love it! Sausage effigies and suitably decorated cakes and biscuits to match :lol:. Maybe a few well named local ales as well. I would love to see the energy expended on supporting football transferred to politics instead, that would be real engagement!

The sad thing is that it seems people are still being indoctrinated with beliefs held by previous generations without stopping to consider whether the historic reasons for them make sense today. Otherwise, we really could have a sausage sizzle as described and laugh about it.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby suffolk » November 3rd, 2019, 4:30 pm

Absolutely agree EM! :hi5: That would be progress indeed!
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby dennispc » November 3rd, 2019, 4:38 pm

If our politicians are arrogant and self-serving it is because they are the ones we’ve voted for.
and the rest of the post.

This in spades.

Another method could be using the internet - though would have to be up to Estonia’s standard. A Michael Portillo programme a little while back mentioned Lithuania and Estonia’s wi fi systems were the best in the world. I’ll dream on a bit more.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby Gruney » November 3rd, 2019, 4:46 pm

Seatallan wrote:On the scouts thing, my dear departed friend was very much of that way of thinking and wouldn't let her son join the cubs.


That's such a shame. They've deprived the lad of belonging to one of the greatest, world wide organisations for boys. I was a member from the age of 8 through to early twenties. I later had a Scout troop of my own. The "Scouts" taught me the right way to go in life; to be tolerant of all races and creeds. - it made me what I am today. The only thing I have retained from my youth, is my Scout jersey, which proudly has the Queen's Scout badge on it. Those on face book can get my photo up, if you wish - I'm so very grateful for what that organisation gave me.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby Pepper Pig » November 3rd, 2019, 5:42 pm

Seatallen, traditionally round here the Scout movement is CofE and the Girls and Boys Brigades RC. Must be a regional thing.

Well done Gruney. It is very sad that so many Scout and Guide troops have now fallen by the wayside. They did themselves no favours however by introducing a leader retirement age. What with that and DBS there are not many people who would volunteer these days.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby suffolk » November 3rd, 2019, 6:02 pm

Thank heavens for the DBS ... its introduction weeded out some appalling characters to my certain knowledge ... it was also instrumental in the prosecution and jailing of at least one person I know of who had been hiding past convictions in order to get close to and abuse some vulnerable non verbal children.

A DBS is quite straightforward ... I had an Enhanced DBS for years.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby WWordsworth » November 3rd, 2019, 6:22 pm

Me too, it was necessary in my previous role.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby Pepper Pig » November 3rd, 2019, 6:31 pm

In the words of my favourite Headteacher, although you have DBS it might just mean you haven’t been caught yet.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby suffolk » November 3rd, 2019, 6:38 pm

Of course PP ... there’s always that possibility ... but the DBS system does not exist in isolation, and when it comes to protecting children and vulnerable adults, a flawed system, coupled with training for others about correct processes and their reporting responsibilities, is better than no system at all.

I would never want to be in the position a colleague found herself in, when she discovered that a service she had recommended for a child, and organised funding
for, has resulted in that child being repeatedly seriously abused.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby Gruney » November 3rd, 2019, 7:02 pm

I totally understand the precautions that have been introduced - of course I do - but the down side, in my experience, was that so many spontaneous, exciting activities that the lads would have loved were disallowed unless all sorts of plans and contingency arrangements were submitted and accepted. It was what they joined up for. Of course I understand the need for responsibility when you are involved with other people's children - but they join up to have fun, excitement and adventure. It's a matter of being sensible. I had so much to show the lads - based on the fun of my own boyhood times - but ultimately, the bureaucracy wore me down.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby Pepper Pig » November 3rd, 2019, 7:09 pm

Agreed that it’s a step in the right direction but it really isn’t flawless.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby suffolk » November 3rd, 2019, 7:27 pm

Don’t think anything can be .., human beings can be devious creatures ... and unless we wrap children in cotton wool ... :rolleyes:
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby Grasshopper » November 3rd, 2019, 8:48 pm

earthmaiden wrote:How can one learn without hearing differing opinions at any age?


Quite!
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby aero280 » November 3rd, 2019, 8:51 pm

Gruney wrote: is my Scout jersey, which proudly has the Queen's Scout badge on it.


I've still got my shirt with the Queen's Scout badge! :)

I did 20 years as treasurer of the local scout group and didn't tell them my history in the scouts. Some of the leaders had a bit of a moan about the finances with comments like "You just don't know what the scouts have to do!" etc. I only showed them the shirt on the day I left!! :D
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby liketocook » November 3rd, 2019, 9:07 pm

Pepper Pig wrote:Seatallen, traditionally round here the Scout movement is CofE and the Girls and Boys Brigades RC. Must be a regional thing.

Well done Gruney. It is very sad that so many Scout and Guide troops have now fallen by the wayside. They did themselves no favours however by introducing a leader retirement age. What with that and DBS there are not many people who would volunteer these days.

Interestingly the other way round here to a certain extent BBs & GB predominately CofS, Scouts/Cubs/Beavers RC/agnostic though Guides/Brownies were when I was growing up and remain a mix. All are going strong in my county and the majority of kids go to one of them though the Ranger Guides seem to have fallen away.
DBS/PVG is a bit of minefield as someone who used to be involved in MAPPA (sex & violent offenders) and as a volunteer with a childcare organisation it is at best an indication. Most of the MAPPA cases I was involved would have a clear check until caught but I do think things are tighter now overall but no system is ever 100%. Certainly what we have now would probably have picked up some of the more "creepy" behaviour (hopefully) by a admittedly small group of teachers when I was at school but then again possibly not..... We cannot (and should not IMHO) protect our kids from every scenario but as a society I think we do need to get better at listening to them and acting if concerns are raised without turning everything into a witch hunt. I'll get off my soap box now as I could go on and on but to summarise I'm not sure we have yet quite got the right balance when it comes to not overprotecting our young people and are building a generation of people are at huge risk of lacking in resilence. "Snowflake" is a an easy tag for the media but us Gen X and older need to recognise why.
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Re: AND HERE WE GO!!!!

Postby Gruney » November 3rd, 2019, 9:54 pm

aero280 wrote:I've still got my shirt with the Queen's Scout badge!


:tu:
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