The cream/jam first debate

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The cream/jam first debate

Postby mum-at-the-oven » August 14th, 2018, 8:47 am

Reading once again on Twitter the whole Devon v Cornwall debate about which goes first on a scone Cream or Jam ..... I have never understood the reasoning of trying to spread either in any order as they would both be inclined to slide off each other.

Surely the most efficient way would be to spread cream on one cut side and jam on the other then just stick the 2 sides together!

Does anyone else do this or is it just me?
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby Suelle » August 14th, 2018, 8:54 am

If you stick the two sides together, not only would a generous fillng squelch out, but if your scone is tall, it's then too big to bite into! :lol:

I favour jam first, which sticks to the scone, then a small mound of cream on top. Eaten with care, the cream won't slide. A lot depends on the texture of the jam and cream - the jam mustn't be too soft, and the cream must be either clotted or quite stiffly whipped.
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby aero280 » August 14th, 2018, 9:09 am

I have a foot either side of the Tamar!!

But if you put the cream on a warm scone first, it melts before you can get the jam on and eat it. Putting jam on first insulates the cream from the heat. Does anyone really enjoy a cold scone?

Clotted cream is real cream! Top of the milk was called “Reem”. Not quite cream... :)
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby suffolk » August 14th, 2018, 9:10 am

I agree ... never sandwich them together ... why would you only use one lot of cream and jam when you could use two :?

I first had a cream tea in Devon and was told by the farmer's wife that you use the cream instead of butter and then dollop the jam on top so that's the way I do it ......... except when I'm in Cornwall when I do it the other way round ... don't want to be chased back over the Tamar :scared: ;)
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby StokeySue » August 14th, 2018, 10:03 am

Surely you do it whichever way suits you?

Personally I spread the jam on carefully first then dollop the cream on top and even it out a bit. This way I get an even coating and don’t make any mess and it seems clear to me that’s probably the easiest way of achieving tidiness

I’m with Suelle on never sandwiching

But I do think it’s a bit silly the way it gets blown up as if it were some kind of great cultural debate. It isn’t.
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby TeresaFoodie » August 14th, 2018, 10:39 am

Cold scone. Jam first then cream. Each half eaten seperately. Spell check changed that to desperately. I was tempted to leave It! :lol:
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby suffolk » August 14th, 2018, 11:05 am

StokeySue wrote:But I do think it’s a bit silly the way it gets blown up as if it were some kind of great cultural debate. It isn’t.


But it's only the press in the silly summer season ... it's a bit of fun ... no one takes it seriously ... not even the Devonians and the Cornish ... they just pretend they do for the press ... it's a marketing strategy :lol:
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby Herbidacious » August 14th, 2018, 11:39 am

If you are using very thick clotted cream, it's almost like butter anyway, so easier to put that on first. So that's what I do. If it were more liquid/floppy double cream, I'd put the jam on first.

Believe it or not we had a spread on this in the Food book I worked on. (Someone mocked it up as a joke, and pinned it to the door but the publishing director liked it so much, it went in.)
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby StokeySue » August 14th, 2018, 11:48 am

suffolk wrote: no one takes it seriously


Oh, but they do!
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby suffolk » August 14th, 2018, 12:11 pm

StokeySue wrote:
suffolk wrote: no one takes it seriously


Oh, but they do!


Who???? I've been visiting Devon and Cornwall since I was 11 years old ... I know people who live in both counties ... both incomers and locals ... no one I've ever met has ever referred to it as anything other than a joke.

It's like the rivalry between Suffolk and Norfolk over how they make their rusks :D
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby StokeySue » August 14th, 2018, 12:21 pm

I've heard peopel (in London) at afternoon teas get quite excited about it
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby Badger's mate » August 14th, 2018, 12:35 pm

It's like the rivalry between Suffolk and Norfolk over how they make their rusks


I've heard various comments on the differences between Norfolk and Suffolk, usually at Carrow Road when Ipswich were visiting, but none of the suggestions involved rusks... :o

I'm with Herbi on this. If I've got a buttered scone the jam goes on top. Clotted cream is used like butter, jam on top. If there is softer cream instead, it goes on top of jam. Cheese scone - soft cheese on first, chilli jam or pepper jelly on top.
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby suffolk » August 14th, 2018, 1:32 pm

Badger's mate wrote:Clotted cream is used like butter, jam on top. If there is softer cream instead, it goes on top of jam.


Wouldn't dream of having anything other than clotted when in the West Country :D :tu: That really is worth sticking to my guns about :lol: :chops:

StokeySue wrote:I've heard peopel (in London) at afternoon teas get quite excited about it


That's because they've fallen for the tourism marketing hype :lol:
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby earthmaiden » August 14th, 2018, 1:50 pm

If I am having a scone with butter and jam I put a scraping of butter as a base for the jam to sit on. If I am having jam and cream the proportion changes and I have more cream than jam. Then the jam goes on first as a base for the cream, it's too messy the other way round. I have to say that I was brought up to believe that a lady only lifts an amount of food to her mouth that will fit the mouth decently and am often more likely to cut a piece if scone, load it generously with jam and cream and pop it into my mouth rather than spread a whole half at once. It depends how much jam and cream has been offered :lol:.
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby Herbidacious » August 14th, 2018, 2:12 pm

earthmaiden wrote:If I am having a scone with butter and jam I put a scraping of butter as a base for the jam to sit on. If I am having jam and cream the proportion changes and I have more cream than jam. Then the jam goes on first as a base for the cream, it's too messy the other way round. :lol:.


Honestly, it's really not if it's thick, clotted cream. Quite the contrary!
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby earthmaiden » August 14th, 2018, 2:18 pm

It depends how greedy you are :lol:. I think I was brought up to put cream last (not that we had jam and cream often) and it feels right.

Do you remember those little tins of clotted cream that people used to send when visiting Devon? We used to store herbs in them afterwards.
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby Herbidacious » August 14th, 2018, 2:24 pm

I am pretty greedy... :shock: :oops: Yes we always did jam first, when I was growing up. Mind you, I never had clotted cream as a child. Just the quite thick, but still 'floppy' stuff made from butter in the Kenwood Chef. I think cream must have been expensive in the 70s/80s?

If I hadn't just had a very big lunch, I'd be craving scones with jam and clotted cream now... :D
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby StokeySue » August 14th, 2018, 3:08 pm

Herbidacious wrote:I think cream must have been expensive in the 70s/80s?


I certainly remember it as a fairly rare treat, though becoming more every day as time went on

I used to buy Kerrygold frozen cream, which came in little pieces like bits of jigsaw puzzle, slightly cheaper but far more economical as you just thawed what you needed, I wish I could still get it to keep on stand by
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby Prettykiwicrazy » August 14th, 2018, 4:31 pm

As a Devon girl , I eat scones the traditional way . It has to be clotted cream first , then jam on too
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby Busybee » August 14th, 2018, 4:58 pm

Been to Bishopthorpe Palace today for a historical tour, very interesting. Topped off with a cream tea served by the Warden and nuns.

Beautifully light scone, jam first then cream...........I’m afraid it wasn’t clotted, but still very good, plenty of tea and refills - an absolute bargain at four pound. A grand afternoon out.

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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby Seatallan » August 14th, 2018, 5:59 pm

Cream first, then jam for me. And 'scownes' rather than 'scohnes' (but don't tell Mr S I said so! :D )
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby Herbidacious » August 14th, 2018, 6:16 pm

I can't tell you how many times we've had the scowns (to rhyme with 'own') v sconns conversation at work...
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby earthmaiden » August 14th, 2018, 6:55 pm

BTW .... what do people think is the correct jam to go with scones and cream? ;)

All my family and people we knew when I was young in the home counties said 'scohnes', but once we lived on various other parts it invited comment (along with other pronounciations) and I gradually changed to fit in with peers.
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby Suelle » August 14th, 2018, 7:03 pm

earthmaiden wrote:BTW .... what do people think is the correct jam to go with scones and cream? ;)


Any red or black jam, but without really big pieces of fruit. I think most people would expect strawberry or raspberry, but I don't see why a tangy blackcurrant wouldn't work just as well.
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby aero280 » August 14th, 2018, 7:11 pm

In the best Devon tearooms, the clotted cream arrives in a fruit bowl with a ladle for you to serve yourself. :D

And there were scones and bread rolls, so you could have cream and jam or thunder & lightning...
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby Badger's mate » August 14th, 2018, 8:28 pm

BTW .... what do people think is the correct jam to go with scones and cream?


I would imagine most people expect strawberry and thus that's what you usually get. At home I'll happily have raspberry, damson or blackcurrant, as that's what I've usually made and got in the cupboard. Strawberry or apricot are nice too though.

I'm very much in the camp that pronounces scones to rhyme with cones.
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby suffolk » August 14th, 2018, 9:21 pm

Afraid my scones rhyme with gone.

Aero ... were they bread rolls or Devon Splits? I love Devon Splits... not often found nowadays.
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby StokeySue » August 14th, 2018, 9:33 pm

Badger's mate wrote:I'm very much in the camp that pronounces scones to rhyme with cones.

My family too

On the jam front you usually seem to get strawberry, not my favourite. My favourite would be Wilkinson’s Tiptree Seedless raspberry, as Mum’s loganberry is no longer available
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby earthmaiden » August 14th, 2018, 9:48 pm

I agree that red or black jam with strawberry at the top of the list seems the most traditional (I love strawberry!). I do think that many flavours go well - and greengage or even lemon curd would be most acceptable to me!
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby TeresaFoodie » August 15th, 2018, 12:30 am

Tiptree seedless raspberry on my cream tea. Yes please! I think the dark pink of the jam sets off the cream coloured scone and the white of the cream a treat. I adore blackcurrant jam, but the colour doesn't feel right with a summery cream tea somehow.

Slightly funny story. An ex of mine, Welsh guy, met in our twenties, camped in the West Country once. We discovered Scrumpy and the cream tea. He could not believe the gorgeousness of clotted cream and had never encountered a cream tea before. I warned him to take care on his intake of the clotted cream. He didn't listen and ate a tub in one scone (schone) laden session. He regretted later not listening to sense! :lol:
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby scullion » August 15th, 2018, 7:09 am

there is no debate. there is only one way. http://www.creamteasociety.co.uk/cream-tea-etiquette#



and it's scone not scon.
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby cyprusmoira » August 15th, 2018, 7:44 am

My Mother was partial to what she called Thunder & Lightning, that was cream and black treacle. Has anyone else ever heard of this?
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby suffolk » August 15th, 2018, 7:54 am

You'll not convince me Scully, but when in Rome I do as the Romans do ;) :lol:

However, I cannot change from saying 'scon' ... that's a step too far :shock:

Love Thunder & Lightning on a Devonshire Split Moira and I have had it in a Devon teashop in the not too distant past ... but nowadays it seems more likely to be Golden Syrup rather than proper treacle. :rolleyes:

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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby Ratatouille » August 15th, 2018, 9:23 am

It's a sconn Scully. Scone is what my dad would have called an effete southern expression but even my West country husband calls then sconns and always has done.
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby Seatallan » August 15th, 2018, 10:11 am

Has to be strawberry jam for me. :chops:

Just not 'right' somehow with any other jam.
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby StokeySue » August 15th, 2018, 10:20 am

The OED blog has tackled the cone vs con controversy - of course!

https://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2013/03/08/how-do-you-say-scone/
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby Rainbow » August 15th, 2018, 10:36 pm

From Sue's link it looks like UK is mostly 'scon' and USA mostly 'scone' (to rhyme with cone)

They don't mention Oz, of course!! I used to say 'scone' (being from Southern, well spoken ;) England) but now say 'scon' because Aussies think that's correct (and scone is effete, as Rats has said :lol: )

On the other hand I used to say yoghurt with a short yog (rhymes with dog) but have had to change to the Aussie long yo (as in yo-yo) so no logic over here, either :lol:
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby StokeySue » August 16th, 2018, 8:44 am

They do say that Oz & NZ both tend to come, iirc

This is the sort of thing that makes audio books a bit weird - in a recent one the narrator mentioned the my-newt hand on the station clock, instead of the minute hand
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby scullion » August 16th, 2018, 12:05 pm

Ratatouille wrote: what my dad would have called an effete southern expression


well, that doesn't mean very much as most of the country lived south of him (from what you've said in the past), making the only people not effete coming from scotland - with a strange mix on the borders (the image of foppish miners in lacy jabot-ed shirts is running through my mind at the moment).

https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/the-g ... nd-ireland

as my father's family came from grimsby/yorkshire and my mother's came from devon/the east end of london i am firmly in the scone (not scon) ancestral tribe.
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby Ratatouille » August 16th, 2018, 12:12 pm

[quote="scullion"]
well, that doesn't mean very much as most of the country lived south of him (from what you've said in the past), making the only people not effete coming from scotland - with a strange mix on the borders (the image of foppish miners in lacy jabot-ed shirts is running through my mind at the moment).

Absolutely not, his great friends from Morningside in Edinburgh always called them scones
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: To Dad, evryone south of Scotch Corner was a southerner!! Edinburgh didn't count because it was posh :lol:
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby Herbidacious » August 16th, 2018, 7:25 pm

I used to think/assume that sconn was posh (because we said scone...) I not sure that it's a north/south divide thing. If it is, my family don't conform. A friend at work says she used to say scone, but trained herself to say sconn! She is northern but quite posh!

Strawberry is my favourite jam to have with scones. Can't stand the seeds in raspberry...
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby liketocook » August 16th, 2018, 9:28 pm

Definitely scone to rhyme with gone round here- unless you are from "Morningside" or pretending to be so :lol: :lol:
However, just to confuse things Scone castle is scone to rhyme with cone!
Does anyone want to attempt Culzean or Milngavie? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby Badger's mate » August 17th, 2018, 10:36 am

It's a wonderful illustration of British inverted snobbery, isn't it?

We say it this way, but they say it that way, because they're posh :o or even worse, think they are :rolleyes:

Which way round do you like your boiled eggs?
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby Seatallan » August 17th, 2018, 11:22 am

liketocook wrote:Does anyone want to attempt Culzean or Milngavie? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Don't know Culzean but always pronounce the second one as 'Millgy'. Where you start the West Highland Way. I have a lovely photo of me and my dear Scottish friend (the one who died) just about to start the WHW at Milngavie. :luv:
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby liketocook » August 17th, 2018, 3:55 pm

Seatallan wrote:
liketocook wrote:Does anyone want to attempt Culzean or Milngavie? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Don't know Culzean but always pronounce the second one as 'Millgy'. Where you start the West Highland Way. I have a lovely photo of me and my dear Scottish friend (the one who died) just about to start the WHW at Milngavie. :luv:

More or less spot on with Milngavie (mul-guy). :D Culzean is pronounced Cul-lane. It has a silent z like in Dalziel. Culzean is well worth a visit if you are ever down that part of the coast. https://www.nts.org.uk/visit/places/culzean

PS _ I believe the Scottish National Trust membership is cheaper than the National Trust but you can use it to get into National Trust properties across the UK if anyone wants to save some money ;)
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby liketocook » August 17th, 2018, 3:57 pm

Badger's mate wrote:It's a wonderful illustration of British inverted snobbery, isn't it?

We say it this way, but they say it that way, because they're posh :o or even worse, think they are :rolleyes:

Which way round do you like your boiled eggs?

It is isn't it...
Never really thought about which way up for boiled eggs, probably because I prefer to scoop them out and pop in a cup with a knob of butter. Didn't realise there was a "right or wrong" way with them :lol:
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby suffolk » August 17th, 2018, 5:35 pm

Big-endians v Little-endians ... Swift’s Gulliver’s Travels. :lol:

Edited to change ‘medians’ back to endians which is what Id already typed ... flipping autocorrect :rolleyes:
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby Badger's mate » August 17th, 2018, 5:39 pm

:tu:
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Re: The cream/jam first debate

Postby liketocook » August 17th, 2018, 6:03 pm

suffolk wrote:Big-medians v Little-endians ... Swift’s Gulliver’s Travels. :lol:

of course :lol: I had forgotten that :lol:
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