Bread Dough

[PatsyMFagan]

I have bought some more strong white flour now ... didn't want to take any chances at this early stage

[PatsyMFagan]

One last question..... since taking the frozen dough (starter) out of the fridge, it looks exactly the same, except soft. So, until I add the flour, water etc, this is to be expected and will only start expanding when it is fed

[dennispc]

As aero280 does this regularly he'll be able to give better advice.

However, if you left the frozen dough in a bowl, it would eventually expand. If you add flour and water to it, expansion will also happen. What I don't know is whether the coldness of the starter will slow everything down too much.

[PatsyMFagan]

I left my starter in the fridge overnight to slowly thaw, then this morning, brought it out of the fridge and put it covered, in a large bowl... however it looks the same as when it first came out of the freezer, except it is now soft from thawing, but no movement/growth

[aero280]

I don't freeze my starter dough, just leave it in the fridge. It has survived being left there for three week holiday.

Yeast works with sugars. If it's very cold, it may need the new flour to provide enough new sugar to get going. But it's very slow. I can leave mine overnight in the pantry without it overtopping the tin.

[PatsyMFagan]

the freezing came about when a couple of bread makers (Scully and Dennis iirc? ) said they saved saved/froze 150g of their bread dough to use as a starter for the next loaf ... Anyway, I am going to bite the bullet and follow Dennis's instructions ...

[dennispc]

My fingers are crossed for you Patsy! I do take it out a couple of hours before mixing.

[PatsyMFagan]

It's done .... well the flour and water (with salt and oil) are added and hand mixed

[PatsyMFagan]

Oh dear ... the earth didn't move last and neither did the bread dough. I didn't have time to deal with it this morning as rushing off to work . Thinking that a sachet of instant yeast somehow incorporated into it might work or is that 'throwing good money after bad'

[dennispc]

Aero's experience suggests you may have to wait longer.

Dried yeast would work, I'm sure.

scullion's been successful, her thoughts would be useful.

[PatsyMFagan]

I will see how it is when I get back from work this avo

[dennispc]

Patsy, I haven’t made much bread over the last couple of years (life), but have read through the thread again, particularly scullion’s posts as I think it’s a matter of giving the mix time.

Notes I made at the time: 8.30pm on November 22 2018, 150g of old dough from freezer into plastic box. On the 24th at 12.30pm it was still expanding (we don’t have a warm kitchen), added 100g of flour and 65g water (weighed), knocked back about 3pm, made three rolls, removed 100g for the next batch.

Next batch (timings are different). 8am Christmas morning took 200g of old dough from the freezer, into box and left on the side. 6.45pm hand mixed with 400g flour and 240g water, plus a bit more water, “did couple more hand mixing and left covered”.

Boxing day at 7am, risen well, knocked back, removed 100g to the freezer, then into bowl … no more notes, presumably made some bread.

Looks like timings vary and it may take a while, which is one reason I’ve not bothered with the old dough technique. We need fresh bread for lunch and that seems difficult to predict.

A question for Aero280. Is your starter dough a traditional sourdough starter or an old dough starter?

[dennispc]

Here's Richard Bertinet's way of dealing with wet dough, and no flour on the work bench or his hands.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbBO4XyL3iM&t=11s

[aero280]

[dennispc]

Thanks aero, very clear. No salt?

[aero280]

Ah! Yes. But not too much.

I think I'm making my dough a bit too stiff. Maybe a bit more water would be better. I'll try it next time. It was OK with the wholemeal from Tesco/Sainsbury, etc. I've bought a 25 kg sack of Dove's Farm stoneground wholemeal and it's acting somewhat differently. It seems to take longer to bake, so I had some underbaked loaves. I'm still getting used to it. Just another 20 Kg to practise with...

[PatsyMFagan]

Well I have a loaf - of sorts, but no idea if it will come out of the casserole . (edited to add it turned out beautifully, )

After more than 12 hours of complete non activity, I took out some of the 'paste', added some water to slacken it and then sprinkled in a sachet of instant yeast - then mixed this back into the paste I also added some more flour. Within a couple of hours, I could see bubbles, so I left it to ferment overnight and it had doubled in size. However, it was still very slack. I tried RB's method of slapping and folding to knock it back but it really was very wet, so I scooped it all up and decided to plop it into the casserole dish.. left it warming for an hour by which time it had risen up again, so decided to bake it.. now waiting for it to cool (Oh, I forgot to take out any dough for my next loaf ! ), so will have to start again with that idea.

[aero280]

That looks quite nice! :}

[PatsyMFagan]

[dennispc]

Patsy, a quick post. Wonderful, pleased for you.

[PatsyMFagan]

I have always used my breadmaker in the past because of shoulder problems and a bit of arthritis , but just realised although it took much longer, I didn't have to do much in the way of manual kneading.

[dennispc]

Can’t remember how many times I made dough, removing a lump, before it became a starter in its own right.

aero, just for my interest, why the spelt? Personal preference?

My wholemeal mixes always feel a bit stiffer than white and needed extra water. Stoneground flour has more of the healthy ‘bits’ in it than rolled flour, so perhaps that’s why there’s a difference.

Put tsp of salt in my dough and 20/30gms of olive oil.

[PatsyMFagan]

And this is my last word on the subject of my loaf It's getting boring now, however, I am mighty pleased with the result now I have cut into it - a fine crumb, not at all dense or heavy as I feared it would be and a lovely crust, not tough at all. This would make lovely sandwiches for afternoon tea

[miss mouse]

[dennispc]

Certainly has, so post again Patsy anytime, that bread looks good.

[aero280]

A light loaf!! I get one sometimes!!

I put a bit of spelt in just from preference. It's supposed to make it lighter. No sure if it does.

[PatsyMFagan]

Oooh, so next experiment then as I have some spelt

[PatsyMFagan]

Lunch today was my bread (Whey hay) and Red Pepper soup with Horseradish (from SW ) .. I have also made Pea and ham soup today from the same book (I digress )

[aero280]

I made a loaf tonight with more water than usual. And I boiled the water and let it cool first.

It's in the frdge tonight. We'll see if it makes a difference when it's warmed up tomorrow.

[dennispc]

Interesting.

I've made spelt loaf, 400g spelt, 100g whit fine crumb and light.

As it's raining, decided to make a white loaf from scratch. Meant to put in more flour in order to try keeping a lump of old dough in the fridge. Forgot! I'll keep back about 50g and hope to remember next time.

[aero280]

In the past, I've forgotten to take the lump out for a starter and baked it all! It's still a risk when I make the dough late at night ready for the morning.

[aero280]

Last night's bread is still rising. It was taken out of the fridge at 8.30am. It's now1pm. It looks like it needs another couple of hours before the oven.

So boiling the water to remove the chlorine doesn't seem to have made any difference at all.

[Mamta]

That loaf looks lovely Patsy.
I use my bread maker to make the dough these days, then shape it and leave for rising again, then bake in the oven. I don't like the breads baked by the bread maker.

[aero280]

Loaf went in the oven at 3.20pm. We had some of it with cheese for an early snack supper. It was fine but the same as previous loaves.

So it took almost 7 hours to rise after it came out of the fridge.

[PatsyMFagan]

[dennispc]

We had a bread maker about twenty years ago. Didn’t like it, for similar reasons and passed it on to family.

Seven years ago we decided to spoil ourselves (and our ageing wrists!), bought a KitchenAid, cakes for OH and bread for me. Good decision.

[Pepper Pig]

When my lot were small (all in their thirties now) I made all our bread in the Magimix. I can't even remember how to do it now. We then had a Panasonic bread maker for around ten years until they'd all left home when I gave it away on Freecycle. I think I may have to resurrect my Magimix skills if we have to home isolate.

[Mamta]

[scullion]

hi mamta, long time no see.
i haven't used my bread maker for quite a while. maybe it should get an outing.

[Mamta]

[dennispc]

Welcome to the club, Mamta!

Making bread with Magimix I found quite strange, seemed to use a lot of yeast and sugar if I remember correctly. Mix ingredients until they become a ball. Leave for 30 minutes (?), pulse a couple of times, shape and oven. It worked but KitchenAid better.

Different yeasts. One time poster has a blog and thought this might interest you.

[Mamta]